copper tubing as a mandrel

Pia Kaven · #1 2010-07-16, 7:24am

Hey ya'll! I have this weird question. About 7 years ago I was in Venice and visited the Sent sisters studio. They had these copper mandrels that did not have any kind of bead release on them. The bead obviously got just stuck on it, and to put it in a kiln, they just cut the copper rod, and then made another one, cut that to the kiln, and so on. The next day they took the beads from the kiln and dissolved the copper core off in some sort of solution (maybe acid of some sort), and there was your bead. No filing or anything, clean as it can be. I was just wondering if anybody knew about this technique, and if it is possible to do in a small scale in home enviroment (safety and cost are my concerns)? And was just thinking, that if you needed copper coring... well, there you would have it. No need to clean the beads and then apply the coring and clue or what ever gets done to it.
I would be interested to know more about this if anyone had any info.

Pia

squid · #2 2010-07-16, 8:17am

I have seen beads made directly on a copper core, but it was a small piece that was pushed onto the end of a stainless holder. Copper conducts heads really well and gets very hot trying to hold it when putting the other end in the flame.

beadaholic · #3 2010-07-16, 8:26am

Etching copper is a pretty regular things for people who do Enamels. But etching copper is really tough for a home operation. It takes mostly chemicals that are very harsh and some people have actually died from what I have read. I haven't done etching before, but there is something called Eidenburg Etch (or similar name) that is done with "safe" chemicals. I do know that alot of countries do metal removal or etching like this, this makes sense in this regard. I had heard of somewhere where they did this with copper wire and instead of mandrels like we use, they did it this way. I imagine you could just leave them cored like this and it would enhance the bead, you cut and polish the core ends! Good Luck, let me know if I can help further....(not much help though right now)

Pia Kaven · #4 2010-07-16, 9:26am

Thats what I thought that it would have to be an acid of some sort to dissolve the copper. They were there really surprised that I used beadrelease, and they recommended that I would get one of those things that make it so much easier. I figured right away that it is propably hazardous, expensive to get started, and in Finland (where I lived at the time) most likely illegal to do something like that at home enviroment.
I do not remember them using gloves, but it makes sense that copper gets pretty darn hot, it is an exellent conduct.
Ok, Im glad to get some info on this. Thank you Squid and Beadaholic.

Flaming Eyebrows · #5 2010-07-26, 10:06am

I don't know anything about using copper tubing, but I was shown how to use copper wire without bead release. The guy that showed me (Bruce, from KY) had designed a holder for the wire, but I'm thinking you could use some sort of pin vise gadget.

You use standard 'mandrel-sized' copper wire, and build your bead directly on the wire. When you put it in the kiln, make sure you have an inch or so of wire sticking out each end of the bead. After annealing, grab the wire on each side with pliers and pull in both directions at the same time. You can also do a gentle 'back & forth' twist, if needed. The wire reduces, and the bead comes off perfectly clean, with no messy bead release to clean out. It was pretty slick!

RSimmons · #6 2010-07-26, 10:20am

There are enamels that you can use to make beads on copper tubing - they come as a kind of large-sized frit. You make the bead on the copper tube using a pointed steel holder and the stub stays put as part of the bead when you are done. Pam East used to teach this material, not sure if she's still doing it.

Robert

Pia Kaven · #7 2010-07-26, 1:56pm

Flaming Eyebrows, that sounds so cool, I did not know that this could be done, sounds like a dream.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSimmons

There are enamels that you can use to make beads on copper tubing - they come as a kind of large-sized frit. You make the bead on the copper tube using a pointed steel holder and the stub stays put as part of the bead when you are done.

Is this cloisonne technique you are talking about? It is pretty cool, though I was more wondering about the copper as mandrels.
Thanks both for your input, I am starting to think I would like to try that wire... sounds though that it would get little hot?

Pia

Ofilia · #8 2010-07-26, 2:20pm

Hi Pia, Use of thin copper tubing for production bead work in Murano is the norm. It's a fast paced industry (on smaller scales from it's hay-day, but still, high production) and the etching out of the copper is generally "farmed out" to special studio(s) with the proper equipment.

Don't know if you noticed the ginormous vats they have at the Sent studio (a couple stainless steel chambers large enough to fit a human in each

!!) Pretty impressive set up, and no, "do not attempt to do this at home, kids"

kind of technique!

Again, the use of this technique is for HIGH production studios, and even not all of these production companies do their own etching out, due to the caustic nature of the job.

For us, the bead release, though it is a PITA to ream out

, is the most practical and safe method.

Pia Kaven · #9 2010-07-26, 2:31pm

Yes, I remember they were huuuuge!!! And defenitely not for home use, I was more amused when they recommended it for me, I was more curious of how it actually worked. And kinda figured out that it was industrial type of deal, otherwise we all would have that already.
I was offered also a job over there 8 years ago... well, now I kinda feel like I should kick myself into the rear for not taking it, but the life took me to the other continents, and I politely declined the offer. That said, I just wanted to live in Murano, not make same beads day after another. Given, that it would have been an experience of a lifetime.
*Sighs*