Differences between Foster Fire and Bucket O' Mud?

Firelilly · #1 2006-04-04, 8:40am

The only two bead releases I've used so far is Bucket o' Mud and then, just this morning, Foster Fire.

I noticed the Foster has a much more gritty or sandy texture to it. Like to the point where the mandrels are gritty looking after they've been dipped. That doesn't seem to be the case with the BoM.

I'm wondering, is that normal? Is Foster's normally so gritty that the mandrels after they're dipped don't really come out smooth looking?

Thanks!

Lil

JavaGirlBT · #2 2006-04-04, 8:54am

If your FF looks gritty, I think you're supposed to add some water to it.

I had some like that and hated it. I couldn't believe you could make beads on a mountainous mandrel -- it literally looked like a mountain range. And someone told me all I had to do was add water. I don't know if it's true, because I had given away the FF by then.

Firelilly · #3 2006-04-04, 9:12am

Okie doke, Ellen. Thanks. I'll give that a try...it is awful thick. Geez, it keeps letting go while I'm trying to first wind the glass on the mandrel too. So far I'm not liking it much.

Thanks again!

Lil

Palestrina · #4 2006-04-04, 9:18am

Hey Lil:
FF is a good release. Add a little water to it. It DOES have that gritty texture which I don't understand but it's a good one. However, BOM is the ABSOLUTE BEST. It's so nice & smooth, I love it! I used FF before BOM was released. As soon as I tried BOM, I swore I would never buy anything else.
Hope this helps.

Firelilly · #5 2006-04-04, 10:12am

Thanks Kimberly! Yeah, I think I'm pretty fond of the BoM too!

Lil

PaulaD · #6 2006-04-04, 10:32am

Fosterfire works a lot better thinned out with water!
I usually mix it with either Fusion or one of the releases that has graphite in it. That gets rid of the grittiness even more and the graphite makes it release easier. I've used it on huge beads (after the mandrels sat there for a month) and haven't had a problem.
I haven't tried BOM yet as I have too many other ones opened. Paula

Wonker · #7 2006-04-05, 4:08am

I gotta tell ya when I opened up the Bucket O Mud...I was hooked....great stuff

Firelilly · #8 2006-04-05, 5:49am

Yep, I guess if I don't run into any reason to use anything else other than BoM then I guess I've found the release I'll keep using. I know I haven't really had any problems with it.

I don't know if there are sometimes situations or circumstances where a release other than BoM would be best but I guess I'll cross that bridge if I ever get to it.

I initially got some of each because they seemed to be the two names that kept coming up most often. I figured I'd see which I liked best.

Lil

chrisdd · #9 2006-04-05, 7:26am

I use FF and love it. You need to add water to keep it really thin...you want to just barely see the mandrel after dipping. I also find that it's less gritty if I shake it really well. Also, after it's dry, you can gently rub your fingertips over it to "sand" it smooth.

I have tried BoM once and found it to be super thick. What is the proper working consistency for this stuff?

MikeAurelius · #10 2006-04-05, 7:46am

Chris has it dead on - thin it out (a teaspoon of water at a time!), then just a slight finger rub to clean off the rough spots - although if I'm doing a particularly complex piece or something that needs additional manipulation, such as a bead press, I'll leave it rough - it gives the glass more surface area to stick to.

kbinkster · #11 2006-04-05, 10:20am

What Chris and Mike said. I love FF. It holds great while I'm making a bead, but when it comes time to remove the bead from the mandrel, it comes off fairly easily. And one of the best things is the bottle it comes in. It's already perfect for dipping - tall and slender, not short and squatty. I really like the scultural/boro formula.

Firelilly · #12 2006-04-05, 12:10pm

Thanks the the additional info, guys.

Chris, I know what you mean about the BoM being super thick. I can't really tell you what would be best for using it. I know my husband and I work it differently.

I haven't watered the stuff down, though I'm tempted to. I dip the mandrel once, in slowly and out again slowly, in an effort to get a thin coat. My husband dips the mandrels two or three times and dips them pretty fast. His ends up being a much thicker coat that he seems to have no problems with.

If I use the mandrels he's dipped I tend to break the release off the mandrel as I start to wind the glass. This doesn't seem to happen on the mandrels that I dip that have a thinner coating. I think he has more finesse with the glass than I do...the little bugger! LOL

Lil

Palestrina · #13 2006-04-06, 12:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisdd

I use FF and love it. You need to add water to keep it really thin...you want to just barely see the mandrel after dipping. I also find that it's less gritty if I shake it really well. Also, after it's dry, you can gently rub your fingertips over it to "sand" it smooth.

I have tried BoM once and found it to be super thick. What is the proper working consistency for this stuff?

With all of this talk about sanding rough spots, grittiness (is that a word?) & rubbing the release, I'm sitting here shaking my head & one question comes to mind... Why bother?
As I said, I do like FF, however, bom is SOOOOOO smooth - no rubbing or sanding involved & no grit. Your beads will slip right off the mandrel compared to everything else out there, seriously, even after working on honkers for a couple of hours. BTW - I usually dip my mandrels only once & slowly, sometimes twice, & my release is not thick. If it's thick, add a tiny bit of water & shake. (You can put crappy beads in the bottom of the jar to help stir the release.) Mine was perfect when I received it. I found one of the best properties of this release is that it doesn't lose water very quickly. You can leave the cover offwhile you work or for a couple of days & it doesn't dry out. FF? Well that dried up in the container with the cover on after about a month.
There is one thing that I found but I'm pretty sure it was end-user error... sometimes the release would break after flame-drying, but that was from flame-drying with too much heat.

Also, here's a tid bit you may find useful: Kate Fowle- Meleny said that this was without a doubt the best release she has ever used & her beads came right off the mandrels.

WOW! I really am talented! I could win the gold for Little Miss Talks-A-Lot! (really, it's becoming a problem... look, I'm still doing it... c a n ' t s t o p t y p i n g...) whew!

misfit · #14 2006-04-06, 3:27am

actually I wouldn't mind a good review of all the bead releases. such as durability, ease of cleaning. how well they stand up to working. ect. I keep trying releases and not all that thrilled so far.

A.

Firelilly · #15 2006-04-06, 3:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by misfit

actually I wouldn't mind a good review of all the bead releases. such as durability, ease of cleaning. how well they stand up to working. ect. I keep trying releases and not all that thrilled so far.

A.

I know what you mean...but I think how a release performs might vary a good bit depending on how an individual works in the flame. For me it's the 3 B's...Bubble, Boil and Burn!

For my husband?...Not so much. So the same release seems to act very differently for the two of us.

Lil

Lisi · #16 2006-04-06, 6:27am

I don't know why but I had a hell of a time getting the beads off the mandrels with Bucket o' Mud, and I bent a lot of them in the process. I've been using Alice's but wasn't happy with the gritty texture, and it's a PITA to blenderize it to get the lumps out.

I didn't thin the BoM out, and I just worked soft glass with it. I'll be using it for boro because it holds up very well, no flaking, but I'm back to Alice's because getting the beads off truly is a dream.

Palestrina · #17 2006-04-06, 2:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firelilly

I know what you mean...but I think how a release performs might vary a good bit depending on how an individual works in the flame. For me it's the 3 B's...Bubble, Boil and Burn!

For my husband?...Not so much. So the same release seems to act very differently for the two of us.

Lil

You're absolutely right. And, if you get any realease too hot, it will be difficult to get the beads off. It's all in the way you work it. But I'm like you sometimes... the 3 B's (that's too funny!). When I get it too hot, I'm just very gentle in the way I take them off so I don't bend the mandrels. They still come off pretty easy. I have always used vice grips to get every bead off, and FF & Blue Coat (came in kit) were much more difficult than BOM when it came to removing the beads. BTW - That Blue Coat is absolute crap & companies that put it in their kits should be ashamed of themselves. It's almost impossible to get the beads off with that stuff. I still have a couple that are stuck for good, it seems, and no, the release did not break. I did like the shape of the bottle, though.

valerie_folly · #18 2006-04-06, 5:14pm

BoM is the best release I've found. Beads come off like a dream and it cleans SOOOOOOOO easy. Valerie

misfit · #19 2006-04-06, 5:25pm

I'm afraid that I'm sort of like 6B's. bubble boil and burn... then do it a second time for good measure... after all having alabaster with ANY hint of color would be a tradgedy right?
Does this mean I should try bucket of mud?
I've been thinking to try both Super Blue Sludge and Pink Slipper Bead Release. Both were sugested.
right now I have frantz bead seperator (hohum- cracks and seperates alright)
and hot line flame dry. it also cracks and seperates but not quite as much.

A.

PaulaD · #20 2006-04-10, 9:34am

Well I was all set to try it this weekend but couldn't get the tops opened! No one was at the studio but I'll grab the glass blower tonight and have him open it! It Is out selling all of the other bead releases in my little studio/shop!
I especially want to try it for blowing Tink Vessels!
Paula

PaulaD · #21 2006-04-14, 6:23pm

Yeah, I finally got to use it! What I really liked is that even though it sat on the shelf for over a month it hadn't dried out at all and still had terrific consistancy. No lumps. All I did was shake it! I used it today on big and little beads and several that were pressed and pressed again. The BOM didn't even flake! We'll see how easily they come off tomorrow! ...Paula

SL Beads · #22 2006-04-23, 12:10pm

I loved the first jar of BOM, but recently I opened the new jar and now I have a big time problem removing beads. I don't think I am doing anything different. But I will experiment by watering it down a bit. It's really puzzling and annoying. Sachiko

frantzglass · #23 2006-04-23, 2:22pm

If you ever have problems with Bucket O'Mud just go to Bucketomud.com and help is right there. If that does not help you, just call Frantz at 1.800.839.6712 and ask for techniqual help.

Thanks

Mike F

InspirationToolworks · #24 2006-04-24, 5:08am

I'm gonna have to try the Foster Fire thinned out for some of my complex mandrels. Thanks for the tip!

I've tried Foster Fire, FPI, and BOM. I've found all three good for different purposes. The Foster Fire releases the easiest on my curved mandrels, the FPI coats the best on my complex mandrels, and the BOM comes off super easy on regular, straight mandrels. The BOM doesn't seem to like to coat flat surfaces evenly, so it doesn't work on some mandrels like the hearts and stars.

I'm looking into viscosity measuring cups for bead release. I think if bead release makers specifed a standard viscosity for thier releases, it would make them easier to use and compare.

The #4 Ford viscosity cup seems to be pretty cheap. I'll pick one up and test it out.

-Jeff