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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2011-06-10, 10:11am
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Default minicc 1# propane anybody do this?

Howdy All!

Anyone actually do this?

When I read this was possible I posted asking if it is so, and it is possible, so now I'm a wonderin' if any of YOU actually do this or know of someone who does.

I have issues with the HH; that I can't get real close 'cause I've got a can in my chest or gut or face depending on how I situate my torch.

I have learned, though, to compensate, but I haven't figured a way to rest my arms because of the tank.

With the mini cc it would be more horizontal than the HH?

Would I still have the issues (or worse) of the tank in my way? is it completely insanse or not possible to run hoses from the tank which could be on the floor to the torch just as if it were a 5# rather than a 1#.

I'm short. 5'1''. Short legs, short waist, short arms....so there's no one part of me that I can utilise to conpensate for not being able to reach. If I could get the tank outa the way I could move in on my work.

Thank you for suggestions and input.

Angel blessings
namaste
Rowyn
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  #2  
Old 2011-06-10, 12:31pm
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I do this. I connect my 1lb canister to the side of the table I work on using the same clamp setup I used to use for my hothead (metal angle deal, O clamp around the bottle and C Clamp to connect to the table). The pancake regulator, which has a hose extending from it, is screwed directly into the top of the 1lb canister. I then use a small brass coupler to connect the short propane canister/regulator hose to the also short torch hose. The torch is located at the front of the table and is clamped down as well. I do the same for the oxycons, except that they are located under the table. The hoses are taped to the underside of the table so they don't get in the way of my knees.

Can you visualize this?
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  #3  
Old 2011-06-10, 6:46pm
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Yes,, I cannnnnn.

Hmmm, I googled what is a pancake regulator and got links to ld discussions but not an answer as to what a pc reg. is?

I think once I have the parts and see them together it will make sense.

I have to walk thru the fear. It took me 4 years to light my HH. Hopefully this will not be as long.

thanks for that great input.

now, last time I hit post my power went out, so here goes again....

namaste
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  #4  
Old 2011-06-10, 7:03pm
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Nothing to be scared of really. I bought a hot head years ago that still only has about 20 hours of use on it. I got so frustrated with the relatively small amount of heat the HH offers that I stopped working on it. A few months ago I bought a GTT Lynx and the ease and speed of use versus the HH is huge. You will be so much happier with the Mini CC. Jump in the water is fine. Lots of good folks here to work you through the learning curve.

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  #5  
Old 2011-06-10, 7:28pm
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The simplest solution would be to get a 4-5 (or 8 ft) foot hose with disposable type "male & female" connectors and clamp HH to bench, and attach hose to HH and then to #1 canister that can be placed on floor....

Simple HH clamp/bracket at bench....



http://www.protanksupply.com/camping...il.asp?ID=4027
http://www.protanksupply.com/camping...il.asp?ID=4028

Mote info on HH and brackets and hoses here...

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum...b173e89dfec816

Dale
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Last edited by Dale M.; 2011-06-10 at 7:38pm.
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  #6  
Old 2011-06-10, 7:32pm
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Don't think a #1 will last you very long on the miniCC but I have no first hand knowledge. Those canisters are about $3 here and a fill up for a 5# BBQ tank is $3 a gallon or about 25 pounds so you really might consider using a BBQ tank even if you have to drag it in and out every time you torch. Dale's solution for the HH also works well but why not move up to a 'big girls torch'? You know you want to...
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  #7  
Old 2011-06-10, 7:36pm
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A 1 lb canister lasts me about 4 hours on my mini. Just an FYI.
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  #8  
Old 2011-06-11, 10:20am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheng076 View Post
Don't think a #1 will last you very long on the miniCC but I have no first hand knowledge. Those canisters are about $3 here and a fill up for a 5# BBQ tank is $3 a gallon or about 25 pounds so you really might consider using a BBQ tank even if you have to drag it in and out every time you torch. Dale's solution for the HH also works well but why not move up to a 'big girls torch'? You know you want to...
I have no place to store a 5# tank. I'm on the second level in a condo complex, our outside tiny deck is above where my neighbours bbq, yes they light that sucker under the wood, it's NJ whad'ya want...

I can build a box and hang from the railing (like a planter) a box to hold 1# cannisters but not a 3 or 5# major bummer.

and oh yes, I want to!!!

the step from cannister to torch vs cannister to hose to torch scares me, but I just need someone to show me and I think I can get that to happen<hoping> and then I'll be good.

thanks for all the responses. I can start with the hose to the mapp can to the HH until I get an oxycon, that will start to get me used to idea.

now to psyche myself into it...

namaste
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  #9  
Old 2011-06-11, 2:48pm
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The setup. I unclamped the hoses so u can see how its connected.


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  #10  
Old 2011-06-11, 4:37pm
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thank you.

That helps alot, explains alot and takes some of the scary monsters out for me.

Now, to start saving pennies for the oxycon and ventilation.

thank you for taking the time to do that. I am really thankful.

namaste
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  #11  
Old 2011-06-11, 6:40pm
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IF you are going to use #1 cylinder with fuel/Oxygen torch be it a mini-cc or a minor or whatever....

You can get a device called a "steak saver" which adapts a #1 cylinder (1 inch disposable threads) to a standard CGA 510 connection type typical the same as large propane tank valve so you can use a standard propane/acetylene adjustable regulator or a any of the pancake or adjustable style propane regulators .....




The regulator below is small fixed pressure (non adjustable) regulator with CGA 510 tank valve connector that is set at 1/3 psi and is approximate the same pressure that people using Natural Gas (NG) as delivered by utility company in their studio... Outlet side of regulator has a industry standard "B" fitting that takes standard welding hose so you do not have to do any cutting or fitting or adapting of odd parts to "make things work"...



Dale
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  #12  
Old 2011-06-11, 7:23pm
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Dale,

Is this different from what you show in the other post?

thanks, always...I appreciate everyone's time.

angels on your pillows
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  #13  
Old 2011-06-11, 8:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redayh View Post
A 1 lb canister lasts me about 4 hours on my mini. Just an FYI.
Seems like an acceptable amount of working time. I try not to go beyond 4 hours in a sitting without taking a break myself. 4 hours seems to be my attention span
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  #14  
Old 2011-06-11, 9:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryC View Post
Seems like an acceptable amount of working time. I try not to go beyond 4 hours in a sitting without taking a break myself. 4 hours seems to be my attention span
Then your attention span is about 2 hours longer than mine! LOL.
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  #15  
Old 2011-06-12, 7:43am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2tumblingdragonz View Post
Dale,

Is this different from what you show in the other post?

thanks, always...I appreciate everyone's time.

angels on your pillows
Yes... This is setup to run low pressure propane to a fuel/oxygen torch (minor-cricket-minicc) vs. running a HH on high pressure with just a hose from #1 canister...

Perhaps some further reading....

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum...c.php?f=12&t=8
http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum....php?f=12&t=11
http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum...c.php?f=12&t=7
http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum....php?f=7&t=136
http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum....php?f=7&t=189

Dale
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  #16  
Old 2011-06-12, 7:53am
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ahhhhh sooooooo

so much to know...high pressure low pressure--why? I would never have even thought of that, is that why the mix fuel torches are so much more quiet thank HHs?

where does one learn this info? about lw torches and such?

dancin' faeries!
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  #17  
Old 2011-06-12, 5:06pm
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The HH torches use a venturi to speedup the gas flow and create a vacuum to suck in more air... this is what makes so much noise.
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  #18  
Old 2012-01-14, 4:18pm
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Hi Everyone!

I'm wondering where the best place to get hoses is. The hoses I got when I got my mini cc are 25 ft long. I need short hoses.

What kind of hoses am I looking for?

Besides the regulators, which I'm having trouble finding the "steak saver" this time of year, I'm gonna need to look online, what else do I need for use with 1# propane canisters only, I will not be using anything larger than 1# cans of gas at this time.

Please explain it as idiot proof as possible. I wish I had someone to show me and the pictures redayh posted are excellent, I'm wondering what you mean by the hoses are unclamped, what would they look like clamped...like I said, idiot proof for me, please.

thanks so much

namaste
Rowyn
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  #19  
Old 2012-01-14, 4:51pm
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The pressure inside a propane canister ranges from around 90-140psi depending on the temperature. This is the same for any size tank.

The HH is designed to take full tank pressure, while torches that use oxygen are designed to take anywhere from 0.25-20psi of gas.

Regulators are designed to deliver gas to a hose at a lower pressure. There are regulators for all kinds of gas, like propane, natural gas, oxygen, carbon dioxide, etc.

You need a regulator that is designed for propane or acetylene. Acetylene is a welding gas that uses the same threads as propane. The regulator you will need will have one of two types of inlets: left-hand male thread or right-hand female thread. A male thread is designed for the larger tanks and a female thread is designed for the small tanks that you want to use. The steak-saver devise is used to adapt the male thread to the female thread.

There are a few different kinds of regulators, welding style and pancake style.

Welding style have one or two gauges and are always adjustable. The are more expensive than pancake regulators.

Pancake regulators are used for barbecues and the like. They usually deliver a set pressure and do not have gauges. If you do get a pancake regulator, try to get one that delivers more than 2psi. I have had issues not being able to get enough gas to my torch with less pressure.

Either type will work fine for your application.

While propane and acetylene regulators are compatible, the hoses are not. Hoses for fuel gas are made in two types, R and T. I believe that T grade is safe for both and R grade can only be used for acetylene, but someone needs to confirm this. Finding the right grade is important.

For the oxygen hose, you just need normal oxygen hose.

Don't forget flashback arrestors.
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  #20  
Old 2012-01-14, 6:13pm
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Thank you.....I forgot to mention the set up will be a mini cc, 1# propane and an oxy con, so no more HH! although I am gonna miss my little friend HH.

I really do appreciate all the help.

namaste
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  #21  
Old 2012-01-14, 7:34pm
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Give Malcolm at Artco a call. I am sure he could come with the necessary parts to get up and running. Artcoinc.com
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Old 2012-01-15, 1:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redayh View Post
A 1 lb canister lasts me about 4 hours on my mini. Just an FYI.
What?? I could get 9 hours on a Hothead using a 1# canister. I don't understand this.

With a Mini CC and much lower pressure, you should get a lot more out of those small canisters! Jeez...I mean, I use 5psi for my Bobcat, and running a HH is on full tank pressure at about 125 psi. I use a BBQ tank for the Bobcat and get about 6 weeks of almost daily torching time. I torch for about 6-8 hours at a time, 3-5 days a week.

Dale?? Isn't full tank pressure about 125 psi?
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Last edited by Lisi; 2012-01-15 at 1:20pm.
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  #23  
Old 2012-01-15, 11:48pm
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The pressure isn't what matters. Its the flow rate. If you have identical orifices, the pressure is what determines the flow rate.

20pounds/(6 weeks*4 days*7 hours)= 0.12 lbs/hour, or about half of what she gets. This is probably because the Mini CC has a larger flame than the Cricket.
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Old 2012-01-16, 8:21am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisi View Post
What??

Dale?? Isn't full tank pressure about 125 psi?
Yes(approximately) .... But its not just a pressure issue, its a "volume/flow rate" thing as Mr Meker states.......

This site is a tank volume calculator....

http://www.csgnetwork.com/volumeprestankcalc.html

IF someone whats to take the time to figure out what the volume of a #1 cylinder and a #20 cylinder is in "cubic feet" and do the calculations using approximate propane pressure of 129 psi (at 70) one could figure out pretty close how many cubic feet of fuel than it contains ....

Dale
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  #25  
Old 2012-01-16, 12:29pm
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This calculator is actually not applicable to propane. Propane is stored as a liquid under pressure. As long as there is liquid in the tank, the pressure will be the same. The pressure only changes with temperature, not amount of gas left until you have used enough gas so there is no more liquid in the tank. Then the pressure starts to drop regardless of temperature.
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  #26  
Old 2012-01-25, 7:51pm
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Dale,
I'm confused...do I need the pancake regulator and the steak saver?

I'lll be using one pound propane and oxycon to a mini cc.

Then the propane hose goes into the propane side of the torch and the hose goes from the oxy con to the oxygen side of the torch?

Does the length of hoses matter?

I'll look into the artco place, too.

thanks
namaste
Rowyn
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  #27  
Old 2012-03-02, 2:14pm
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I'm, finally, at the place to do this. We tried to find steak savers a while ago and no one had them and then money got tight so now, if I can't find one locally I'll get one online.

I spoke with Malcolm who is very, very nice and really explained things to me AND I understand what he told me!

His suggestion was a smith bunson burner control valve regulator or the pancake regulator. I think his point was that by the time I buy the steak saver and the pancake regulator it will cost the same as the adjustable regulator.

Hmmmm, but do I need to adjust the flow? I'll go back and reread the posts.

He also suggested that since I can legally have 2 1# propane tanks, that I run 2 into a T connector for more volume so my cans don't freeze up so quickly.

I wish I had someone locally who could show me this. I'm scared of it. Remember(how would you remember? I remember, it took me 4 years to light the HH).

So, thank you, any help, reassurance is appreciated.

Do I need clamps for the hoses? do they come with clamps, yeah I do need clamps...what size?

thanks

namaste
Rowyn
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  #28  
Old 2012-03-02, 5:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2tumblingdragonz View Post
I'm, finally, at the place to do this. We tried to find steak savers a while ago and no one had them and then money got tight so now, if I can't find one locally I'll get one online.

I spoke with Malcolm who is very, very nice and really explained things to me AND I understand what he told me!

His suggestion was a smith bunson burner control valve regulator or the pancake regulator. I think his point was that by the time I buy the steak saver and the pancake regulator it will cost the same as the adjustable regulator.

Hmmmm, but do I need to adjust the flow? I'll go back and reread the posts.

He also suggested that since I can legally have 2 1# propane tanks, that I run 2 into a T connector for more volume so my cans don't freeze up so quickly.

I wish I had someone locally who could show me this. I'm scared of it. Remember(how would you remember? I remember, it took me 4 years to light the HH).

So, thank you, any help, reassurance is appreciated.

Do I need clamps for the hoses? do they come with clamps, yeah I do need clamps...what size?

thanks

namaste
Rowyn
Yes, malcolm is a great guy to learn from. When I first started last year he helped in many ways to bring me up to speed. Again remember that volume and pressure are not the same. You will be adjusting the gas volume at the torch valve and the pressure at the regulator. I would go with the adjustable regulator as he suggested. It will give you more flexibility.
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  #29  
Old 2012-03-02, 6:13pm
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No sure what the adjustable regulator From Malcolm is....

But the "Steak Saver" is a adapter that screws on to the top of a "disposable canister" ( it has 1 inch x 20 threads and is unique to itself)... THE steak save's other end has a "industry standard" (CGA 510) female coupling that ANY Adjustable fuel regulator (acetylene or propane) will connect to...

Whether you go with a adjustable regulator or a "pancake" style is up to you...

Since a steak saver can be had for about $16 (minimally + shipping)...



http://www.gandermountain.com/modper...D=GSHOP_433509

And a pancake regulator is about and fittings is about $20-30 its probably cheap a route to go... Tthe pancake regulator can be had in about 1/3 psi or 2 psi or 5 psi ( 1/3 or 2 psi should be plenty)...



As for a adjustable regulator (acetylene or propane for a bout $85 (+/-) ...



http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...5430_200345430

As for hoses all you need is a set of standard WELDING Hoses (twin hose) and you can separate them and use green hose side from torch to oxycon and red side from torch to "regulator"... No need to get "special hoses or make up weird hoses... Just be sure welding twin hose is "T" rated (for propane use)..



A lot will depend on your resources and what you expect in the end.... There is many options, I am only suggestion what I am familiar with and know to work...

Dale
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Last edited by Dale M.; 2012-03-02 at 6:26pm.
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  #30  
Old 2012-03-02, 7:34pm
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Thank you. He suggested a Smith bunson burner control valve regulator....Malcolm said pricewise it's 6 of 1 half dozen of another price wise.

He also did mention the steak saver, said it's up to me. I don't know how much pressure I want or need, how do I find that out?

thanks

namaste
Rowyn
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