Fuming with silver & gold

gmkcpa · #1 2011-08-11, 11:08am

After a few fumings with a little piece of .9999 silver, the little ball of silver has a dull finish on it. Does that dull finish create problems? Should it be cleaned off, and if so, how?

When fuming with gold and silver to get green (I just made 5 marbles and 2 paperweights) how much gold do you fume onto the maria, and then how much silver do you add? Is 30 seconds of gold fuming considered alot, a little? Do you fume until the maria shows a tinge of pink, or until the maria looks totally pink? In the 7 pieces I made I used both 24k and 22k gold in varying amounts, along with silver in varying amounts, and yes, I did get green, but I 'got green like a little seedling and I want green like a big bush'. About 2 years ago I made a gold and silver fumed marble (24k gold and .9999silver) and got a very intense almost flourescent green (like a 'big bush') but I haven't been able to duplicate it.

I went through other threads on this issue before beginning, but I still haven't gotten it nailed down yet. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Onekura · #2 2011-08-11, 1:19pm

for greens I use quite a bit of gold and just a little of the silver. To get the right ammount you will have to try it. It is very hard to get a consistent outcome. I start with the gold and I fume until the pink is strong enough. Then I fume the silver. In my experience, when you see the silver fume it is almost too much. Very little gives me the best colors.
Also, the black backing makes a big difference. Some blacks bring out the fuming with more intense colors than others - I might be wrong on this, but it sure seems so to me.
And, to make you feel better, I am fuming for quite some time now and I still can't get consistent colors - it always varies - but thats the beauty/surprise of fuming.

LarryC · #3 2011-08-11, 1:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmkcpa

After a few fumings with a little piece of .9999 silver, the little ball of silver has a dull finish on it. Does that dull finish create problems? Should it be cleaned off, and if so, how?

When fuming with gold and silver to get green (I just made 5 marbles and 2 paperweights) how much gold do you fume onto the maria, and then how much silver do you add? Is 30 seconds of gold fuming considered alot, a little? Do you fume until the maria shows a tinge of pink, or until the maria looks totally pink? In the 7 pieces I made I used both 24k and 22k gold in varying amounts, along with silver in varying amounts, and yes, I did get green, but I 'got green like a little seedling and I want green like a big bush'. About 2 years ago I made a gold and silver fumed marble (24k gold and .9999silver) and got a very intense almost flourescent green (like a 'big bush') but I haven't been able to duplicate it.

I went through other threads on this issue before beginning, but I still haven't gotten it nailed down yet. Any help is greatly appreciated.

As you have discovered there are a huge number of variables involved. I have only been fuming for about 2 months now and I have found the following to have a significant effect on the outcome....Impurities in the donor metals, Amount of fume applied, Flame chemistry, how hot the glass to be fumed is, where in the flame the donor metal is as well as the position in the flame of the piece being fumed, Which brand clear is used, and how many times the donor metal has been heated. I also can get some striking to occur both in the flame and in the kiln and that alone could be the subject of many more threads. I am sure these are just the tip of the iceberg. Can you tell I am fascinated by all of this?

I get the bright green you are describing by using 22K gold and applying it very heavy. Should be a thick metallic finish on the glass before encasing. Because of all of the factors I have mentioned I really dont even think in terms of length of time to get a specific amount of fume. It varies quite a bit for me.

Look at the marble I posted here in post #4. Is that what you are looking for?
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=200284

gmkcpa · #4 2011-08-11, 5:34pm

Based on each of your comments (Onekura and LarryC), and thank you very much for them, I just tried again. Gold fume until the maria became the darkest pink I ever saw, and then just 2-3 passes of the maria into silver fume. And I covered the back in Onyx. Going into the kiln I wasn't too impressed; tomorrow morning I'll get a good look. I KNOW that this works, so whatever the results I'll keep at it. (I will work thinking of that old definition of insanity-doing the same thing over and over, but expecting a different result.) So, it's been a long day but there is just one more thing I gotta do. I have to go fight that Big White Russian while I watch the finals of So You Think You Can Dance (got it recording).

gmkcpa · #5 2011-08-13, 3:17pm

The marble in the center, top I made in Dec., 2009. All the rest are some of the ones I made in July-Aug 2011. I'm getting closer to what I want. Thanks for your help. More help would be greatly appreciated.

LarryC · #6 2011-08-13, 4:35pm

Very nice. Love some of the blues. What brand clear are you using? Which is the one you just made?

gmkcpa · #7 2011-08-13, 5:11pm

My last one, made yesterday (Friday, Aug. 12, 2011) is the one with the 'round flowers with the dot in the middle'. It's got some nice green and gold. I'll post better pictures.
That marble was made with a 3/4" Simax rod, alot of gold fume and a little silver fume. Oh yeah. it was also made with a lot of love and affection.

AuntD · #8 2011-08-15, 9:57am

I like your other marbles too, but I see why you want to replicate the green metallic. That's fantastic!

LarryC · #9 2011-08-15, 10:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmkcpa

My last one, made yesterday (Friday, Aug. 12, 2011) is the one with the 'round flowers with the dot in the middle'. It's got some nice green and gold. I'll post better pictures.
That marble was made with a 3/4" Simax rod, alot of gold fume and a little silver fume. Oh yeah. it was also made with a lot of love and affection.

I find Simax to be my least favorite brand for either silver of gold fume. I get really nice greens using Corning Pyrex but the silver tends to want to white out. I think I bought it from Wale Aparatus. Lately I am messing with Kimble. There is a lot of variation in how the different brands react to fume.

gmkcpa · #10 2011-08-15, 5:21pm

Wow. Very interesting that you should say that, LarryC. Because I still have a few 1/2" rods of pyrex that I got from Wale maybe 12 or so years ago. When I started making implosion marbles I used it along with NS Caramel (for the leaves) and every single leaf has the coolest blue halo along its edge. I think Cosmo said that pyrex was good for getting that effect, too. So I think I'll just bulk up some 1/2" rod of the pyrex into a 3/4" rod and fume away.

LarryC · #11 2011-08-15, 8:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmkcpa

Wow. Very interesting that you should say that, LarryC. Because I still have a few 1/2" rods of pyrex that I got from Wale maybe 12 or so years ago. When I started making implosion marbles I used it along with NS Caramel (for the leaves) and every single leaf has the coolest blue halo along its edge. I think Cosmo said that pyrex was good for getting that effect, too. So I think I'll just bulk up some 1/2" rod of the pyrex into a 3/4" rod and fume away.

Cool. Post a pic. Simax is my least favorite clear overall.

MagpieGlass · #12 2011-08-17, 6:11pm

So ... on the subject of fuming ... I stumbled across this gentlemen's work.

Totally Awesome:
http://www.etsy.com/shop/seanclayton

He also has a gallery out on Glass Artists dot org that has perfume bottles. His work is Stellar ... on so many levels.

Bunyip · #13 2011-08-17, 6:22pm

That link brings me to a site that makes my virus scanner freak. Try this one instead: http://www.etsy.com/shop/seanclayton

MagpieGlass · #14 2011-08-17, 8:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunyip

That link brings me to a site that makes my virus scanner freak. Try this one instead: http://www.etsy.com/shop/seanclayton

THanks for fixing the link. Duh ... typo

cheng076 · #15 2011-08-24, 10:02am

Go over to the marble forum and seek out Nate Meyers. He is the king of fuming in these parts.

Mango · #16 2011-08-24, 8:46pm

^ agreed, love his cosmos work

Rodger · #17 2011-09-03, 1:07am

I just got some AWESOME green by fuming golder over very slightly reduced (not noticeably so) black lightning, then encased in clear. I'll post pics when the marble is out of the kiln!

Juln · #18 2011-09-05, 4:00pm

It looks like Sean Clayton's work is actually done with silver powder, not exactly fuming.

MagpieGlass · #19 2011-09-05, 8:03pm

Cheng ... thanks for the information on Nate ... I'll go check him out.

Juln ... Sean doesn't really divulge how he is doing except that he is using fine silver. My thought was leaf burned off or silver frit/powder. I have silver frit from Devardi that I bought. I tried a couple with foil and got some "interesting" effects.

Nothing I'm brazen enough to show here though.

untamedrose · #20 2011-09-05, 8:31pm

Wow those cosmos are crazy

love them!

Dumb newbie Q, # 4,783 what about platinum? Do any other metals, get these kinds of reactions with glass?

deb tarry · #21 2011-09-07, 8:04am

Do your research on fuming anything other than silver and gold. I say this because I was just hanging out with Bob Snodgrass at Glass Stock and he was saying some metals when heated to fume with can give off extremely toxic skin burning fume. I know I should have written done more of what he said but I was so excited to just be in his studio I could hardly think. lol

Juln · #22 2011-09-07, 12:22pm

It's always one of the first things people new to fuming want to try, but I have yet to see anyone achieve anything substantial with metals other than silver and gold. Platinum, palladium, copper: not really.

gmkcpa · #23 2011-09-13, 7:15pm

In a room it's no big deal, but put it under a light and this fumed flower comes to life, IMHO. (That's 'In My Humble Opinion') I'm pretty sure I did it with Simax and 24k gold (but there is a small chance it is Pyrex and 22k gold). Next step is to make it so that you can see it without a light shining on it. Aw gee, did I use Simax or Pyrex? 22 or 24k? Man... this is an excellent reason why I have to WRITE THINGS DOWN, OR DO THEM
NOW!

Bunyip · #24 2011-09-14, 12:22pm

Call it a ghost flower and sell it for more

untamedrose · #25 2011-09-14, 9:50pm

Love the ghost flowers

How exactly do you get a purple color??
read somewhere that only gold applied enough will do that.
Tried got a beautiful color pink with gold frosting on the tips...which Rocks...but not what I was aiming for lol

Bunyip · #26 2011-09-15, 8:25am

I wonder if gold fume over transparent blue would give you a turple color.

LarryC · #27 2011-09-15, 10:12am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunyip

I wonder if gold fume over transparent blue would give you a turple color.

Tried that with NS dark cobalt. No purple. I think I posted a picture of the result around here somewhere.....Of course with fume there are lots of variables and maybe I just didnt tweek them right.

gmkcpa · #28 2011-09-15, 12:35pm

Bunyip - I have some old rods of turple color somewhere. If I find them I can send you one, along with a zandelo! (You put a smile on my face and a chuckle in my throat.)

Bunyip · #29 2011-09-15, 1:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by untamedrose

Love the ghost flowers

How exactly do you get a purple color??
read somewhere that only gold applied enough will do that.
Tried got a beautiful color pink with gold frosting on the tips...which Rocks...but not what I was aiming for lol

I think you meant her ^ for the purple glass. I have more glass than I know what to do with. (really... it's getting excessive)

On the other hand, considering that you're right down the street we need to get together sometime when I'm not stupid ridiculously busy (I do roofing, you can understand why I'm busy this time of year I'm sure

)

gmkcpa · #30 2011-09-15, 5:50pm

Here are 8 pictures of one marble; 5 are on a white background and 3 are on a black background. I'm pretty sure this one is pyrex with 24k and silver fumed on. I did not put any backing on it (I'm thinking of adding a back). I was very surprised to see how different it looked on white and black.