Just bought a used 10 sided paragon

alienscience · #1 2011-12-09, 7:55pm

Specifically, it is the SNF-24. I am unsure if it is the SNF-24A as the bricks have definately seen some wear and a few of the elements are a little bent up. It is a good kiln from my perspective though.

It needs some work as it does not have a controller installed, but did come with one. An Omega CN6070A microprocessor-based temperature controller. It's wired for 110v as of right now, but also has a 220v cord that I plan on installing once I get started on the rebuild.

A few of the bricks are banged up and some are missing their tops, but it's overall fairly solid (and extremely heavy)

I'm probably going to be asking for some help in this thread with putting it together as I am neither experienced or educated on constructing kilns. I've attached a few pictures below of everything it came with and it's current state.

I am unsure if it has a relay, so I figured I'd ask where to look or if by chance the controller has a built in one as it is fairly large.

I appreciate any and all help with this project, no matter how large of a contribution. Just please don't post any "cupcake" videos...

I apologize for the abnormally high image size.

houptdavid · #2 2011-12-09, 8:11pm

If it's this...
http://www.paragonweb.com/SNF24_2441151AFA.cfm
it's WAY to big for beads!

alienscience · #3 2011-12-09, 10:46pm

It is in fact that kiln. What makes it unfitting for beads?

I updated the first post with pictures, please excuse my sloppy wording.

As you can see, it is slightly dented and dinged. What can I expect from the kiln as a whole?

houptdavid · #4 2011-12-09, 11:10pm

It is 7.52 cuft inside for one!
2. no bead door

Alaska · #5 2011-12-09, 11:32pm

It is a top loader which is not well suited for annealing beads. i.e. all the heat leaves quickly when the lid is open. And it is deep but great for big ceramic pieces.

The power requirements are in the range of 10.8 KW which is well over what is needed for annealing. And the power requirement of 45 amps will require an additional 220 volt 50 amp circuit.

The overall aim point for annealing beads is front loading, 110 VAC with a power requirement in the range of 1000 to about 1800 watts. (1 KW to 1.8 KW). Kilns that reach 1150 F to 1200 F will work just fine for either soft glass or boro for annealing purposes.

IMO it would be best to part it out and design a much smaller kiln that will fit your present needs.

Something like these, one commercial and one home made would be a good direction to aim for.

PerfectDeb · #6 2011-12-09, 11:36pm

I'd kill for it!

But I want a ceramic kiln

alienscience · #7 2011-12-10, 12:26am

Well, since I got into glass as a whole. I think I will be able to cope with the lack of bead-ability

I was wondering most what I am dealing with, in terms of getting the kiln back to working state. I feel like I have the ability to fix it up, I just don't know what I will be able to do with it.

Not trying to push any buttons (mine are broken by now), just asking for a few quick tips.

I saw these online and thought they might suffice:

I am fairly sure the controller will hold 1000 or so degrees and ramp down from there. But I am not positive.

I was told it was used previously for metal work and slumping. It's definitely got it's share of ware, I just don't know how much I can fix it up.

I was also told it's made to not come apart, I figure it's got something to do with the mortar. But, like I said before, I am a complete novice with this stuff.

I snagged it for $150, which I figured was a good deal as it came with the controller and a stand. I also received a lot of left over scrap and a brand new national a/b. I don't really have a need for two torches right now, so I may end up selling or trading one.

I've gotten so much help from people online lately, that I feel I need to do something with them.

Anyways, I really appreciate you all helping me out. It's made my day. I'll see what I can get done with it tomorrow and post an update.

PerfectDeb · #8 2011-12-10, 12:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by alienscience

Well, since I got into glass as a whole. I think I will be able to cope with the lack of bead-ability

I was wondering most what I am dealing with, in terms of getting the kiln back to working state. I feel like I have the ability to fix it up, I just don't know what I will be able to do with it.

Not trying to push any buttons (mine are broken by now), just asking for a few quick tips.

I saw these online and thought they might suffice:

I am fairly sure the controller will hold 1000 or so degrees and ramp down from there. But I am not positive.

I was told it was used previously for metal work and slumping. It's definitely got it's share of ware, I just don't know how much I can fix it up.

I was also told it's made to not come apart, I figure it's got something to do with the mortar. But, like I said before, I am a complete novice with this stuff.

I snagged it for $150, which I figured was a good deal as it came with the controller and a stand. I also received a lot of left over scrap and a brand new national a/b. I don't really have a need for two torches right now, so I may end up selling or trading one.

I've gotten so much help from people online lately, that I feel I need to do something with them.

Anyways, I really appreciate you all helping me out. It's made my day. I'll see what I can get done with it tomorrow and post an update.

$150 is a great deal, maybe you could even fix it up and sell it at a profit then put the funds toward a glass kiln

I've been looking for something like that for ages dammit!

Eta - the biggest thing as somebody pointed out above is that for beads you need to be able to open and close with not much heat loss, also you need to be able to put the beads in without burning yourself - even my with bluebird I have trouble putting my fingers even partway in the door. It would be fine for slumping etc cos you don't have to open the door as much

alienscience · #9 2011-12-10, 12:39am

What would stop me from using this as a glass kiln? I've read about people removing a brick and cutting a hole in the side for a punty door.

The controller is a very nice one too. I'm sure it can hold and ramp.

I imagine I might have a hard time placing things in it when it is at full temperature. Especially small objects like beads and pendents. But vases and goblets shouldn't be a problem. I surely don't want to get ahead of myself, merely work with what I've got.

PerfectDeb · #10 2011-12-10, 12:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by alienscience

What would stop me from using this as a glass kiln? I've read about people removing a brick and cutting a hole in the side for a punty door.

The controller is a very nice one too. I'm sure it can hold and ramp.

I imagine I might have a hard time placing things in it when it is at full temperature. Especially small objects like beads and pendents. But vases and goblets shouldn't be a problem. I surely don't want to get ahead of myself, merely work with what I've got.

Yeah why not, I'm a huge believer in lateral thinking

The last obstacle then is power usage - freekin big kiln for small work

alienscience · #11 2011-12-10, 1:20am

I hope to be doing a lot with it. Everything from an eventual full load of beads to slumping, maybe even some pizza.

I've got a lot to do before it's up and running though.

PerfectDeb · #12 2011-12-10, 2:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by alienscience

I hope to be doing a lot with it. Everything from an eventual full load of beads to slumping, maybe even some pizza.

I've got a lot to do before it's up and running though.

Kilns make brilliant smores...

houptdavid · #13 2011-12-10, 7:16am

Trust me I went the same route, bought a big ass kiln (not knowing the difference then), and a controller.

You can slump/fuse glass in it on several shelves with no problems, however if you are going to do anything other than batch annealing of beads...
When you open the top to put in one bead you are going to get BLASTED with 960F

The National is worth 100.00 on its own and you say it has a controller so basically you got the kiln for free...

TOSS IT, Give it away, sell it, take it apart and use the pieces, or fix it for fusing, just don't bother with it for beads (seriously trying to save you from doing this twice)

Make (or buy) a smaller kiln or a mailbox annealer will be miles ahead!

Lisi · #14 2011-12-10, 12:17pm

Too big and too deep for glass work, and the heat blasting out of it when you open from the top will be searing. You really need something that will open from the front. But it would make an awesome ceramic kiln if you plan on taking that on anyway, of course.

You can get a great kiln here, and they have excellent customer service. Plus a very flexible lay-away plan. http://theglasshive.com/

PittsGlass · #15 2011-12-10, 1:03pm

I know the draw to collect equipment. I went through this too. The prospect of what you can do with this in the future is tempting, fusing wise. As a bead kiln though, it will fight you all the way.

What you save on the front end in initial cost, you will pay on the back end in electricity costs. Depending on how closely spaced the elements are, you may be able to get a bead door in it, but then you are still paying to heat 7x the space you need. The added bead door will, in the end, make it less efficient in fusing, unless you make it so you can replace the removed brick when you are not making beads. `

If $ is the issue, you are not saving yourself any with this set up for making small work. If you can trade a ceramic artist for a smaller one, you both will come out ahead. If glass is your passion, the small work will pay for the larger next step when the time is right. I just could not afford to run that monster, even our 4 foot x 6 foot long kiln for furnace work costs less to run. You did get it at a good price, and you can get a good foot forward toward what you really want.

PittsGlass · #16 2011-12-10, 1:06pm

Thank you Lisi

alienscience · #17 2011-12-10, 2:33pm

I will take all of your words in respectively.

I really started glassblowing to work with glass as a whole (at least, that is what I pictured). So I may hang on to it, at the very least I'll fix it up and see if anyone is up for a trade for a smaller kiln.

It's really cool to look at though =)

And maybe I can get a few slumpings in before I let it go.

Thanks to everyone who helped me out so much. I really appreciate it.

LarryC · #18 2011-12-10, 3:04pm

Love the link in your sig. Thanks for that

Build it up and use it a bit then sell it. You'll learn a lot and probably make your money back plus.

alienscience · #19 2011-12-10, 8:00pm

Thanks Larry. I've been planning to consolidate all of the material I've gathered from learning about glass into a torrent file and host it for others to download. I've got several hours of youtube videos and a few electronic books.

UPDATE ON KILN: It's still sitting around. I've taken some more looks at it and read a little of the controller manual, but I am no closer to knowing whether or not it has a relay as I do not know where to check for one. I have decided to dedicate to it though, it should be a lot of fun putting it back together. Perhaps I will make a thread chronicling it's development.

Last but not least, I put a torch up for sale in the garage. It is a Nortel Red Max with no more than 50 hours of use. It's in great condition and comes with a few extras. Feel free to check it out.

houptdavid · #20 2011-12-10, 8:48pm

This looks like a set point controller not a ramp soak controller, in case you don't have the manual
http://www.omega.com/manuals/manualpdf/M0531.pdf

alienscience · #21 2011-12-10, 10:03pm

Just goes to show how little I know and how much I have to learn.

alb6094 · #22 2011-12-11, 5:34pm

Just ran across this.

What about giving the folks at Paragon a call? Couldn't hurt, they're based down here in Plano, Texas.

alienscience · #23 2011-12-12, 2:26am

Great idea alb.

Say, you wouldn't be a fan of the band bloc party by chance would you

jaci · #24 2011-12-12, 5:38am

If the previous owners used it for glass to fuse and slump you mshould be just fine to batch anneal. Think positive here... If you don't have a kiln to anneal and you batch anneal once a month vs a smaller kiln every day you are not really spending that much more $ than you would with the kiln on every day.
You don't need the furniture either, just pile them in a terra cotta flower pot water catcher plate, on or off the mandrel. Check out some threads on batch annealing to get other cost saving ideas

Have fun with it! Really. Try all sorts of stuff just for fun! I would!

I also second the mailbox/toolbox annealer if you are awesome enough to re-build this kiln that should be a breeze, and looks like its really cool.

essiemessy · #25 2011-12-12, 3:13pm

Hey, Deb, I'll swap ya my big ole Tetlow for a wee one

BTW if you're doing a lot of batch annealing, there's nothing wrong with what you've got, but it'd be a big load to make it worth firing up.
Mine's huge, too, but it's ok because I also got a lifetime's supply of china paints with her, so I've got plans for coldwork and fusing down the track. I'd hate to think how it would be to open the lid of yours to put a bead into. As it is, with a front door, a leather glove is necessary! And I've had some roll back out on their mandrels when I do 'anneal-as-you-go' stuff

PerfectDeb · #26 2011-12-12, 4:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by essiemessy

Hey, Deb, I'll swap ya my big ole Tetlow for a wee one

BTW if you're doing a lot of batch annealing, there's nothing wrong with what you've got, but it'd be a big load to make it worth firing up.
Mine's huge, too, but it's ok because I also got a lifetime's supply of china paints with her, so I've got plans for coldwork and fusing down the track. I'd hate to think how it would be to open the lid of yours to put a bead into. As it is, with a front door, a leather glove is necessary! And I've had some roll back out on their mandrels when I do 'anneal-as-you-go' stuff

i'll just mail you all my pottery ok?

alb6094 · #27 2011-12-12, 5:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by alienscience

Great idea alb.

Say, you wouldn't be a fan of the band bloc party by chance would you

Don't know them, I did go give them a listen. Interesting but I'm more into symphonic metal.

alienscience · #28 2011-12-13, 4:18am

Wow, great help everyone. I will surely be making a 'how-to/progress' chronicling my "rebuild".

So far, I've only tested the elements and they all seem to be working. I've got a lot to do though.