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Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions.

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  #1  
Old 2012-06-27, 6:28pm
caliglassguy caliglassguy is offline
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Default Upgrading Torch in Near Future...reviews/suggestions?

Im considering upgrading my torch in the near future...(like about 6 months or so) Im working boro on tanked o2 and mainly making marbles of late and just feel limited on my red max because I want to make larger marbles and paperweights. I've been researching torches and I understand it's the artist not the torch but still would like a new toy even though I'm primarily a hobbyist. I've looked at the Herbert Arnold and like the easy adjustment and it seems like it's built like a tank. Everyone swears by the GTT torches and I am also considering a Phantom or Mirage 4 stud with foot pedal. The carlisle CC+ seems like a good torch also and I also like the Bethlehem PM2D watercooled torch as it seems to have many different flame types and is highly adjustable and because Suellen Fowler says its best for color lol....I know thats not a reason. I'm just wanting to make larger stuff eventually and while the red max can get me 2inch plus marbles it's a bit tough to adjust. I'm sure fans of each torch will chime in and eventually I will just buy the one I think I like best but if anyone has these torches and uses them and can list pros and cons of each it would be appreciated. Thanx
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  #2  
Old 2012-06-28, 3:10am
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I love my Beth Bravo, and when the time comes I would not hesitate to get the PM2D. However, GTT does have triple fire torches, I can see where having a one size fits all torch would be very handy. I suggested to Bethlehem that they make a triple fire version of the PM2D they were intrigued with the idea. Just remember that a big torch is going to go through oxy very fast. Knight makes a CC/CC+ clone that is supposed to be as good as the originals.
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Old 2012-06-28, 6:06am
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For solid work, nothing beats a GTT. I would go with the BIGGEST, BADDEST GTT torch you can afford. There's no comparison. Mirage 4 stud is a good choice... or even a GTT Delta elite. Or as noted above, they have 3 stage torches as well if you want to go really big.

Best of all, if you decide you don't like your GTT (heh unlikely), as long as you keep it in good condition (don't ding it up by breaking punties over the back of the torch, don't run it too low and melt the face etc), you can often sell it for close to retail. Not a bad deal.
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  #4  
Old 2012-06-28, 6:35am
LarryC LarryC is offline
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I do 2+ inch marbles on a Mirage. Great torch. Zero complaints.
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  #5  
Old 2012-06-28, 9:11am
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Ditto on the Mirage. Great torch!

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  #6  
Old 2012-06-28, 6:06pm
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The Kobuki is the Lynx cenerfire, surrounded by a phantom+, surrounded by a Mirage+ ring, when all are fired together, it is like a Delta plus! I've been using and loving mine for over two years now.
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  #7  
Old 2012-06-28, 7:04pm
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These torches almost sound like they are your girlfriends.
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  #8  
Old 2012-06-28, 7:17pm
caliglassguy caliglassguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_Slawson View Post
The Kobuki is the Lynx cenerfire, surrounded by a phantom+, surrounded by a Mirage+ ring, when all are fired together, it is like a Delta plus! I've been using and loving mine for over two years now.
Sounds like I'd never need to upgrade again though not sure its in my budget....I may go with the Delta Elite.
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  #9  
Old 2012-06-28, 8:43pm
caliglassguy caliglassguy is offline
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These torches almost sound like they are your girlfriends.
Yeah.... view my post in bedroom area and you'll know why
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  #10  
Old 2012-07-04, 6:25am
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I have gobs of torches, and have worked on lots of torches over the years. Since you are already an experienced glassworker, do solid work, and want to go large scale.. I also reccomend a big GTT.

if you were a beginner, doing blown work or any number of other variables, that may not have been my reccomendation.. but for what you want to make GTT all the way
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  #11  
Old 2012-07-07, 4:57pm
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carlises are oxy hogs. Phantom flames are small, the Mirage is good, and imo, the best for what you want to do while balancing oxy costs.
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  #12  
Old 2012-07-11, 6:30am
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Have you considered the GTT sidewinder? Here is a thread talking about it.

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ght=sidewinder
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  #13  
Old 2012-07-11, 9:46am
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If you're thinking of going with concentrators, strongly consider the sidewinder.
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  #14  
Old 2012-07-11, 8:19pm
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ive had a mirage and a redmax. though I didn't have much skill when I owned the redmax, I's say the jump in heat you may be looking for may not be what you're expecting. I'd go for the delta elite. the mirage is a very very hot torch and hotter than the redmax, but get the most torch you can afford.
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  #15  
Old 2012-07-13, 3:52pm
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^Like
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  #16  
Old 2012-07-14, 6:07am
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I recently upgraded from a Beth Bravo to a Delta Elite. The Bravo is an awesome torch but it's not on the same level as the triple mix GTT torches.
I'd say get nothing lass than a Mirage.
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  #17  
Old 2012-07-14, 3:10pm
LarryC LarryC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornbread View Post
ive had a mirage and a redmax. though I didn't have much skill when I owned the redmax, I's say the jump in heat you may be looking for may not be what you're expecting. I'd go for the delta elite. the mirage is a very very hot torch and hotter than the redmax, but get the most torch you can afford.
I think at this level of performance we are just splitting hairs but what the hell....I think the Mirage is the more versatile torch. You do have a larger flame front and higher upper end heat level with the delta but you also lose a lot of really important useful in between flames that you can get with the mirage. I know two people who started out with Deltas and then ended up selling them and getting Mirages and not being disappointed with the change.
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  #18  
Old 2012-07-14, 3:19pm
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Hell throw down for a Kobuki and get the whole schmear.
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  #19  
Old 2012-07-14, 3:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryC View Post
I think at this level of performance we are just splitting hairs but what the hell....I think the Mirage is the more versatile torch. You do have a larger flame front and higher upper end heat level with the delta but you also lose a lot of really important useful in between flames that you can get with the mirage. I know two people who started out with Deltas and then ended up selling them and getting Mirages and not being disappointed with the change.
I agree. Started with a Cricket then Cheetah and now a Mirage. I was thinking about a Kobuki, but I have gotten so used to adjusting the Mirage to the flame I need that I would go for a Delta Mag next. (sun screen a must)
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Old 2012-07-15, 9:06am
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Hell throw down for a Kobuki and get the whole schmear.
Actually I want a HA 40 to go side by side with the GTT next but thats another thread.
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  #21  
Old 2012-07-15, 11:40am
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If you are having issues adjustng your redmax you might want to look at the Arnold 40mm. It will not melt as fast as a gtt but it can def get some things done quicker or with more control.

If you go GTT and get a two stage make sure you get a pedal it will save lots of adjustments.
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  #22  
Old 2012-07-17, 5:49pm
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I LOVE my carlisle for blown work, but they are oxygen pigs. For big marbles I would say go with GTT. They have a kobuki version,, and he is the master of marbles
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  #23  
Old 2012-07-17, 6:11pm
caliglassguy caliglassguy is offline
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Thank you for all the advice/ suggestions/pros/cons....I think I may just settle on a Kobuki torch if I can afford it or just wait till I have saved enough to afford it. I love the looks of the Herbert Arnold and it does seem to be easy to adjust from the short video I've watched though not sure if I'd get the 40 or 50 or 65 mm Herbie. If I'm unable to wait I'll likely settle for a Mirage price wise it seems an easier upgrade than waiting till I can plunk down 3300+ for a Kobuki and another 4oo+ for the foot pedal. Time to start signing up for overtime at my day job and beginning the torch fund. I may check out the Sidewinder too though I'm not sure of the capabilities for larger marbles heat wise on the sidewinder.
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  #24  
Old 2012-07-17, 9:29pm
LarryC LarryC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caliglassguy View Post
Thank you for all the advice/ suggestions/pros/cons....I think I may just settle on a Kobuki torch if I can afford it or just wait till I have saved enough to afford it. I love the looks of the Herbert Arnold and it does seem to be easy to adjust from the short video I've watched though not sure if I'd get the 40 or 50 or 65 mm Herbie. If I'm unable to wait I'll likely settle for a Mirage price wise it seems an easier upgrade than waiting till I can plunk down 3300+ for a Kobuki and another 4oo+ for the foot pedal. Time to start signing up for overtime at my day job and beginning the torch fund. I may check out the Sidewinder too though I'm not sure of the capabilities for larger marbles heat wise on the sidewinder.
For marbles more is definitely better. I can make a 2" using just the lynx but it takes about 2.5 hours. Most of that time is spent in bringing the mass up to a uniform temp sufficient for going into the mold. The same marble and bigger is usually 1.5 hours on the mirage. The pedal is really not that important as I find I almost always re adjust the torch mix when I kick on the outer fire anyway. I would like the herbie 40 but it really is much more expensive than the mirage since you will need an expensive inline regulator and a way to supply air as well. You can run without those items but i am told you lose a lot of the things that make the herbie tops.
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Old 2012-07-19, 12:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caliglassguy View Post
Thank you for all the advice/ suggestions/pros/cons....I think I may just settle on a Kobuki torch if I can afford it or just wait till I have saved enough to afford it. I love the looks of the Herbert Arnold and it does seem to be easy to adjust from the short video I've watched though not sure if I'd get the 40 or 50 or 65 mm Herbie. If I'm unable to wait I'll likely settle for a Mirage price wise it seems an easier upgrade than waiting till I can plunk down 3300+ for a Kobuki and another 4oo+ for the foot pedal. Time to start signing up for overtime at my day job and beginning the torch fund. I may check out the Sidewinder too though I'm not sure of the capabilities for larger marbles heat wise on the sidewinder.
in the local glass shop where I some times hang out they run both the kabuki and the dleta elite. while the kabuki has more flame variations they tell me the delta has more heat.
As far as foot pedals go you can build one easliy for around $100 I am very happy with the one I built
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  #26  
Old 2012-07-19, 6:54pm
drew1492 drew1492 is offline
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So what problems are you having adjusting the redmax?

GTT's have a bit of a learning curve. If you can put up with that for a couple months I think you would be good with a GTT.

I have used all three and have to say I like the Herbie the best but I do not do all solid work. I have owned and used a major minor, mirage, and a 40mm Herbie. The herbie is the easiest of all to adjust.

If you get the chance try a GTT before you buy one the person I sold my mirage to said the big flame can get to be a intimidating at times. Atleast try a lynx or phantom before you would drop the funds on a Kobuki, and then if you like it sell the lynx or phantom for almost what you paid for it.

I got $1700 for my mirage after using it they do not drop in value a lot.
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  #27  
Old 2012-07-19, 8:16pm
caliglassguy caliglassguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew1492 View Post
So what problems are you having adjusting the redmax?

GTT's have a bit of a learning curve. If you can put up with that for a couple months I think you would be good with a GTT.

I have used all three and have to say I like the Herbie the best but I do not do all solid work. I have owned and used a major minor, mirage, and a 40mm Herbie. The herbie is the easiest of all to adjust.

If you get the chance try a GTT before you buy one the person I sold my mirage to said the big flame can get to be a intimidating at times. Atleast try a lynx or phantom before you would drop the funds on a Kobuki, and then if you like it sell the lynx or phantom for almost what you paid for it.

I got $1700 for my mirage after using it they do not drop in value a lot.
I think I've got the Redmax dialed in and am able to adjust it pretty good now, I was having alot of issues with glowing bits on the face while working but seems to be only occasional since turning the oxygen up way more. I've been focusing mainly on larger marbles but I'm sure I will still eventually do something hollow or blown. Is the herbie primarily for solid work only or can you work other things? I'm pretty sure I'm set on getting a GTT torch at this point and am leaning towards a larger one for larger marbles/ paperweights. I may get to try Larry Cazes' Mirage in the near future to see how I like it. The Kobuki seems to be quite versatile from what I've read and it would be awesome to never have to upgrade again.
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  #28  
Old 2012-07-20, 4:02pm
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I have it on good authority that Bethlehem is soon to be replacing the PM2D with a more Bravo like model.
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  #29  
Old 2012-07-20, 4:09pm
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CaliGlass, The Kobuki looks nice but its pricy. You could buy a really nice kiln for the difference. The Mirage is also very versatile. Try mine and then decide if it works for you.

Last edited by LarryC; 2012-07-20 at 4:18pm.
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  #30  
Old 2012-07-20, 6:12pm
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A new mega-bravo! Now that's an appealing thought!

Especilly if it is optimized for oxycons and NG like the bravo...

Want!
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