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Jelveh Designs - Glass Beads Torched One-by-One

Beads of Courage


 
  #1  
Old 2006-07-05, 1:17pm
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Default 10 LPM concentrator - choices??

Hey all

I'm currently on tanked O2, but am considering getting a concentrator. I'd really like a 10 LPM concentrator, because I'm starting to do some small boro sculptures.

I see two that seem to be good choices. One is the Integra 10, which is pretty pricey for me (I might have to wait a while), and the other is offered by Generations Glass - an Unlimited Oxygen 1510, which is almost half the price.

I know that a lot of people are sold on the Integra 10 (and I hope this is a new machine, for that price), but am wondering if the Unlimited Oxygen 1510 will work (anyone using this?), and would love some feedback.

Or, are there other good options out there that I haven't found yet?

Thanks!!
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  #2  
Old 2006-07-05, 3:32pm
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You didn't mention your torch. Different torches perform better/worse with different concentrators/generators, so that bit of information would be helpful.
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Old 2006-07-06, 4:51am
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http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=17298
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Old 2006-07-06, 5:59am
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I'm going to be using a Pirahna *smiles*

Justin, I did see that thread, but they're not the same concentrator. Unless you're saying that the Unlimited Oxygen 1510 is just an P-20 with a new number. (Or making generalizations, which has given me pause too and is why I started this thread *S* And why I'm asking if there are more options)
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  #5  
Old 2006-07-06, 6:49am
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Unlimited Oxygen has re-designed the P-20/M-20. It is now the 2010 Tornado and now has a dual compressor configuration.

The 1510 is a modified unit that is similar to what the P-20/M-20 was but does not push the concentrator beyond it's limits.

These newer units have been through better testing and perform as they are designed to.
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  #6  
Old 2006-07-11, 8:20am
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I'm not really sure if modified Respironics Millenium units are a good thing. You already have to handle them with the most care possible since they are really fragile to begin with. The bigger units seem to be more like generators but I'm wondering if its not just the inner workings of 2 millenium units modified like the others and placed inside a bigger nice box?

Anyways I'm guessing some people have success with them if they are sold! I'd have to try one for a while to see how they fair compared to similar units
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Old 2006-07-11, 10:27am
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*nods* I really wish I could try each kind out for a little bit, but I can't make it to the Gathering or anything like that. And there aren't a ton of options for the larger concentrators.
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Old 2006-07-11, 1:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamMuse
*nods* I really wish I could try each kind out for a little bit, but I can't make it to the Gathering or anything like that. And there aren't a ton of options for the larger concentrators.
Hello Dreammuse, I am sorry that you cant make it to the Gathering, we plan on having all our line-up there. As you can see, we have caught a lot of grief trying to build a unit that will do the multitude of torches, styles, altitudes and egos. I think that we now have most of the spectrum covered. We have had many more happy people than unhappy. We now offer a 3 year warranty with every unit. I would like to send you the 1508 to try out. This is not a sales pitch, it is just my way of helping someone out and getting feedback on the unit. We dont have a 1510, Im not sure where that came from. The 1508 is 15psi at 8lpm runs in the 90s %. If you need 10lpm, you will have to go to a larger generator. Call me or email me at southcentralcryo@sbcglobal.net with your address and I will send one your way. jack
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Old 2006-07-12, 6:44am
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Hi Jack

I saw the listing for a 1510 at Generations Glass (which I believe is a distributor, yes?) Here's the link to it.... (maybe they just got the number wrong?)

http://www.generationsglass.com/Oxygen.html

Thank you so much for your kind offer. That's really nice of you, and I might just take you up on it. I'm going to PM you now, so we can talk details.
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  #10  
Old 2006-07-12, 7:32am
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You can bet on the Integra 10 giving you 10 lpm at 9 psi...day after day and year and year! It is a new machine...shipped directly to you from the manufacturer. You can read about it on my website. The Piranha is the center fire of the Barracuda...there is a picture of the flame of the Barracuda with the center fire (Piranha) and full. More than enough oxy for that torch. You could actually get away with one reconditioned 5 liter with a Piranha, but not for boro. Mark Scott and Brian Silence (Sequal...manufacturers of the Integra 10) will be at the Gathering to answer any questions and demo the units. Be sure and stop by to say hello!
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Old 2006-07-12, 8:48am
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Hi Paulette! I will def go read your website about the Integra 10.

The main reason I decided not to go with a 5 liter is because I do want to work some small boro. Because either purchase would be significant, I've decided I should go with something that will do both soft glass and boro. Plus, the Integra 10 is adjustable so I could turn it down the LPM if I was doing soft glass, right? Or wouldn't I need to?
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  #12  
Old 2006-07-12, 10:52am
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Two 5LPM devilbiss units will give you the same output specifications as an Integra (10LPM and 9PSI). They cost less and in most cases have a better warranty too! If you dont need 10LPM, just simply turn a machine off!
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  #13  
Old 2006-07-12, 12:30pm
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Thanks for the suggestion, Justin. I'm not familiar with how you'd use two machines, as opposed to one. (though I do remember hearing some people do that...)

so how would that work? Do you daisy-chain them or something, or attach them to the same hose with a splitter?

What about energy use? Would two Devilbiss run at the same energy as one Integra? And what's the noise factor of two machines as opposed to one?
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  #14  
Old 2006-07-12, 12:35pm
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You would use a y connector to couple them. I sell the Y connectors also. They would use a little more electricity, but we're talking only a couple dollars when you get your energy bill. They might run a *tad* noisier, but these machines are real quiet to begin with so I doubt it would bother you much, if at all.
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  #15  
Old 2006-07-13, 4:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oxydoc
We dont have a 1510, Im not sure where that came from.
Hi Jack,
This is the information that was given to me by you when I called to make sure that I had all of the information correct for the website.

I have now changed my website to reflect the correct information.
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  #16  
Old 2006-07-13, 8:33am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oxydoc
Hello Dreammuse, I am sorry that you cant make it to the Gathering, we plan on having all our line-up there. As you can see, we have caught a lot of grief trying to build a unit that will do the multitude of torches, styles, altitudes and egos. I think that we now have most of the spectrum covered. We have had many more happy people than unhappy. We now offer a 3 year warranty with every unit. I would like to send you the 1508 to try out. This is not a sales pitch, it is just my way of helping someone out and getting feedback on the unit. We dont have a 1510, Im not sure where that came from. The 1508 is 15psi at 8lpm runs in the 90s %. If you need 10lpm, you will have to go to a larger generator. Call me or email me at southcentralcryo@sbcglobal.net with your address and I will send one your way. jack
I like the way you are naming your units. It spells out what you are getting and makes life easier. 15 psi and 8 LPM putting out purity in the 90s % sounds great.
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  #17  
Old 2006-07-13, 6:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Generations Glass
Hi Jack,
This is the information that was given to me by you when I called to make sure that I had all of the information correct for the website.

I have now changed my website to reflect the correct information.
Hey Kristian, Im sorry man. I did not mean to confuse. The unit is a 1508. Sometimes I meet myself coming and going, but I always speak to myself in passing. We'll get it right, jack
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  #18  
Old 2006-07-13, 7:04pm
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Hey K, thanks for the comments. we are trying to make it better. My brother and I were talking today about the fact that we started working with lampworkers only a year ago at the Gathering. We had 1 medical unit and 1 M10. Now we have 7 concentrators and generators to offer and I cant wait to go to the Gathering. I hope to run into you again. jack
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  #19  
Old 2006-07-14, 5:55pm
Larry LaClair Larry LaClair is offline
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Default re:unlimited oxygen customer testimonial

Re: Unlimited Oxygen Concentrator customer response ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I purchased a P-10 which arrived as an M-10 this past December for my MiniCC. When it arrived I realized that it is basically a rebuilt Respironics. Originally the business that I purchased it from recommended running it above the redline on the dial. After lots of following of threads on various forums, I've gone back to running it below the redline on the dial as it sounded like I was shortening the life of the concentrator.

Here are my conclusions: I'm now considering buying a 2nd concentrator. Most of the recommendations for the MiniCC are for 2 5LPM concentrators. I thought by purchasing the P-10/M-10 that I could get by on one. However, now I'm concerned that I'm running the concentrator well past its capacity. There is a tremendous amount of discussion on Lampwork Etc. that you might find interesting if you are considering this model. I'm thinking that a 2nd concentrator would make me happier with the performance of the torch and serve as a back-up if the P-10/M-10 should give out.

I haven't listened to other concentrators but I would say that unless you are working in a very small space, the concentrator is not excessively loud. I'm still designing my ventilation system and at the moment I'm using a multi-fan set-up and the fans are several times louder than the concentrator.

I guess that most times the bottom line question is -- would you buy the P10/M10 again? I am reasonably certain that if I could back the clock up to last December, I would not make the same choice -- I definitely wish I'd picked a different concentrator solution. I will add it's not because I can point to any particular problems but just because I felt that I was sold something that I felt was supposed to perform at a higher level and should really just be compared to any other 5LPM medical concentrator on the market.

Good luck with your decisions !!
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Old 2006-07-15, 9:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meister1981
I'm not really sure if modified Respironics Millenium units are a good thing. You already have to handle them with the most care possible since they are really fragile to begin with. The bigger units seem to be more like generators but I'm wondering if its not just the inner workings of 2 millenium units modified like the others and placed inside a bigger nice box?

Anyways I'm guessing some people have success with them if they are sold! I'd have to try one for a while to see how they fair compared to similar units

I've noticed Larry that my question and comment went unanswered by The builders of these units and I'm guessing that what I suspect is probably true.
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  #21  
Old 2006-07-16, 5:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meister1981
I've noticed Larry that my question and comment went unanswered by The builders of these units and I'm guessing that what I suspect is probably true.
Was that a question? and was it directed at me? If so I am the builder and I prefer not to talk about how they are built. I apologize but it is just not a good idea for me to explain in detail how these machines are put together. The important thing is that they work and very well. We back them up with a 3 year warranty. You are right about the Millenniums though, they are fragile and need to be handeled with care. Aside from that they are a very good dependable and quiet unit. We have had to replace several because of shipping damage. We also change shipping companys 3 times trying to find someone who could ship them without busting them up. But, hey, thanks for the interest in our machines. We are seriously hoping that people work their way past the mud-slinging and accept us as a company who is trying very hard to work with the lamp working community in supplying equipment that will make their lives and businesses an enjoyable and affordable time. We will be around for a long time and plan to back up and support each and every item we sell. jack
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Old 2006-07-16, 6:18pm
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Back to the original question...no comparison...connecting 2 five liter units together, in theory, does give you 10 lpm, but at a lower pressure. But that's not the important difference...the difference is in the interior makings of the machine...#1...the Integra 10 is a new machine, directly from the manufacturer...#2...The difference in the seive bed system is all the reason the Integra 10 works much better than connecting 2 five liter units together. There is absolutely NO LAG between cycles...just smooth delivery of O2. You can see a picture of the seive module on my website on the Integra Page. All other concentrators have 2 cylinders (seive beds). They cycle back and forth, back and forth...and this does make a difference. Please don't misunderstand me...I DO NOT want to get into a 'mine is better than yours' war here...just want you to know the differences.

Paulette
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Old 2006-07-17, 6:25am
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Paulette, I have two questions.

I had been told that if you add two concentrators together, then you get the combined total of the LPM and whatever the pressure is. For example: two 5 LPM machines that each put out 8 psi would yield 10 LPM at 8 psi. Is this true? If say one of those machines were only 5 psi, would that mean the combined psi would be between 5 and 8 psi, but definitely less than 8 psi?

My other question is: does the speed at which other units cycle back and forth between seive beds affect how noticeable any breathing is? Do some machines have a shorter lag time than others? I am just curious how some people say that their concentrators breathe while others say that they do not. I know that my Integra does not breathe, and it's cool to know the reason.

EDIT to add: PS Jack, Justin, or Larry: If any of you guys have any input, I'd like to hear from you, too.

Last edited by kbinkster; 2006-07-17 at 6:27am.
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Old 2006-07-17, 6:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamMuse
Thanks for the suggestion, Justin. I'm not familiar with how you'd use two machines, as opposed to one. (though I do remember hearing some people do that...)

so how would that work? Do you daisy-chain them or something, or attach them to the same hose with a splitter?

What about energy use? Would two Devilbiss run at the same energy as one Integra? And what's the noise factor of two machines as opposed to one?
I happen to have two of those machines that Justin brought up to me. Over the past week I have been using them quite a bit. On my Tiger Shark, I can run the center flame at full capacity on the two machines. The center flame on my torch is the same as your Pirhana.

I haven't tried it on one yet. I'm going to do that this week. Also, we ran those two concentrators powering a Nortel MidRange, and it ran beautifully. Plenty of flame to do large marbles and blown work.

As far as noise goes, they are quieter than any standard ventilation system. I can't hear them over my fans.

This week I'm going to try those concentrators (one at a time and two together) on all the torches I own and take some photos for reference...
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Old 2006-07-17, 7:07am
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Oooh, I hope you do that, Chad!! I'd love to hear the results of your tests.

my goal is to not only make soft glass beads, but also do some small boro sculpture. I'd love to know what the true requirements are.

I'll tell ya, decisions like this make me want to stay with O2 tanks!! LOL
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Old 2006-07-17, 7:15am
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Yeah, tanks are the best, but honestly, with these two concentrators, I think my oxygen bill will go down significantly. For most of what I do, I only use the center fire on my torch. I have the 4 port manifold for my torch, so I run the center fire off the concentrators, and the outer fire off tanks. That way the only time I use anything out of a tank is when I'm using the outer fire. I am going to try the outer fire on these two concentrators, but I'm betting they might not be enough...
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Old 2006-07-17, 7:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbinkster
Paulette, I have two questions.

I had been told that if you add two concentrators together, then you get the combined total of the LPM and whatever the pressure is. For example: two 5 LPM machines that each put out 8 psi would yield 10 LPM at 8 psi. Is this true? If say one of those machines were only 5 psi, would that mean the combined psi would be between 5 and 8 psi, but definitely less than 8 psi?

My other question is: does the speed at which other units cycle back and forth between seive beds affect how noticeable any breathing is? Do some machines have a shorter lag time than others? I am just curious how some people say that their concentrators breathe while others say that they do not. I know that my Integra does not breathe, and it's cool to know the reason.

EDIT to add: PS Jack, Justin, or Larry: If any of you guys have any input, I'd like to hear from you, too.
You shouldnt feel hardly any lag, if any at all! Why? Because there is a built in holding tank in most concentrators. It is built as a buffer to prevent just this problem. You cant hook this machine to a patient that needs oxygen, and have a lag in the delivery to the patient. The ONLY way you should have any lag is if you're running the machine at such a high flow rate (IE: running it above the red mark on the Liter Per Minute gauge) that you are actually emptying the holding tank and depleting any oxygen stored inside. This "lag" problem is also typical of Airsep Newlife oxygen concentrators. By design with these machines, when you get a lot of hours on them and run them at the higher flow rates (4 or 5LPM), the oxygen purity can tend to swing very widely. Say, from 75% pure to 90% pure is NOT uncommon! If you have this problem, your machine needs service. When the Airsep Newlife is rebuilt properly, you wont notice this problem until you get some hours on it. The airsep also lacks the "holding tank" that I mentioned above.
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Old 2006-07-17, 4:08pm
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Justin is right, also if you hook 2 machines together, there is no way that you can make them switch at axactly the same time. Start one machine then the other, they will not switch the same and you wont notice any fluxuating. Also what K said is true, the volume of flow will increase with 2 machines but not the pressure. Most oxycons switch every 7,8,or 9 seconds. So mis-matching should not be a problem as long as the pressures are the same. jack
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Old 2006-07-31, 4:18am
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From my corner, I have used a Devilbiss 505 and it worked great for soft glass but then I upgraded to the larger concentrator from Jack and love it! I am on a Pirahna and my only concern is that it is almost too hot for my soft glass. My original unit was damaged in shipping (it had clearly been bounced and wheels were shattered). Jack worked with me on my concerns and I am definately a pleased customer. I have what was a M-15. Jack can confirm if that is the equivalent of the 1508 unit. When it cools down, I plan to play more with the boro but what little I've done so far has made me very happy with this unit!
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