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Safety -- Make sure you are safe!

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  #1  
Old 2005-08-16, 8:14am
sandra j ziolkowski's Avatar
sandra j ziolkowski sandra j ziolkowski is offline
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Default long Term effects of carbon monoxide produced by your torch

Because I was using just a fan and thought that was enough to get rid of these vapors I suffered some of these symptoms and thought it would be a good idea to inform incase anyone is still using anything less than a great exhaust system such as some of the ones mentioned in these threads. Read below.

Long Term Effects of Carbon Monoxide Poisoning
Carbon monoxide, also known as CO, is a potentially deadly gas that can have devastating effects upon your life – assuming, of course, that it doesn’t kill you.

This gas has no taste, colour or odour, and can be breathed in over a short or long period of time without you even knowing that it is present. Depending on the levels of carbon monoxide that are breathed in to the body, you may suffer short term effects or permanent damage.

Again depending upon the levels of carbon monoxide breathed in, this gas could prove fatal and can cause a gradual death or can kill within minutes.

The reason why carbon monoxide is so harmful is that it displaces the levels of oxygen within the blood, which results in the death of cells and damage to major organs, which are subsequently starved of oxygen. This lack of oxygen in the blood is known as anoxia. This can lead to a range of symptoms and effects, both short term and long term depending on the levels of gas breathed in and the duration over which you are exposed to carbon monoxide.

The long term effects of poisoning by carbon monoxide can be extremely serious. The long term effects of breathing in carbon monoxide can affect:

memory
brain function
behaviour
cognition.
It can also cause permanent damage to other major organs within the body, such as the heart.

It is thought that the hippocampus, which is the section of the brain that deals with new memories, can be particularly susceptible to long term damage from CO poisoning.

The effects of carbon monoxide poisoning over the long term may be subtle or may be very severe, depending on the extent of poisoning:

Up to forty percent of those poisoned can suffer problems that range from amnesia, headaches and memory loss to personality and behavioural changes, loss of muscle and bladder control and impairment of co-ordination and vision.

Many of these long term effects are not immediate and may present themselves several weeks after exposure.

In many cases, the symptoms may wear off within a certain time period.

However, in some cases the effects are permanent: particularly in the case of organ damage and brain damage.

Some of the long term effects of low level exposure are still unknown, so it can often be difficult to ascertain what sort of effect this hazardous gas may have upon your life.

Although the majority of people that suffer long-term effects from carbon monoxide poisoning do recover in time, there are those that will suffer permanent damage.

It is vital that everyone takes responsibility for ensuring their safety against exposure to this gas in order to avoid serious problems or even death. There is more information and better resources available on the subject of carbon monoxide than ever before these days, making it easier for people to protect themselves and others from the dangers of CO poisoning.

By educating yourself, raising awareness, and exercising vigilance you can dramatically reduce the risks of carbon monoxide both within your home and in the workplace.


Copyright © 2004 SilentShadow.org -- Carbon Monoxide Information Other Interesting Sites: Used Folder IMPORTANT NOTICE: The above information, including but not limited to informational articles, other text/images, and on or off site links, has not been prepared, endorsed, or reviewed by any form of licensed medical professional, including but not limited to physicians, doctors, and so on, nor by any form of licensed legal professional including but not limited to an attorney. Nothing on the this website should be taken as either medical or legal advice, but instead should act as a useful resource in providing general information that may be useful to members of the general public. All visitors are encouraged to consult with a physician or other licensed medical professional for any form of medical advice, and a licensed attorney/lawyer in all legal matters.Internal Carbon Monoxide Information
Carbon Monoxide InformationThe Dangers Of Carbon MonoxideWhat Is Carbon Monoxide Poisoning? Symptoms Of Carbon Monoxide PoisoningSources Of Carbon Monoxide PoisoningPrevention Of Carbon Monoxide PoisoningLong Term Effects Of Carbon Monoxide PoisoningTreatments For Carbon Monoxide PoisoningThe Chemistry And Science Behind Carbon Monoxide PoisoningCarbon Monoxide In Your CarCarbon Monoxide In Your HomeHow To Detect A Carbon Monoxide LeakWhat To Do If You Suspect A Carbon Monoxide Leak

External Carbon Monoxide Information:
DMOZ Directory: Home Safety And SecurityDMOZ Directory: Home And Family SafetyUS E.P.A. Carbon Monoxide (CO) OverviewMedLinePlus: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning (US Gov. Site)Didn't Find What
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  #2  
Old 2005-08-17, 1:18pm
rszvonek rszvonek is offline
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Question Where can I purchase a large ventilation hood

Hi Mike,
I am building a studio that is the size of a two car garage. I'm looking for a hood that will go over a table I plan to put in the middle. My goal is to have space for roughly 8 people to work. Can you recommend a hood manufacturer? Thanks so much. Robin
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  #3  
Old 2005-09-01, 10:09pm
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x_phoenician x_phoenician is offline
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Default And there's more....

Thanks for mentioning this Sandra.

I was looking up Nitrogen oxides last night because someone in some other thread mentioned it too. I'm more worried about nitrogen gases, although both are bad. The bead books I have read certainly don't mention "real" adequate ventilation- one even told how they have a fan set up on the floor to suck air out. Maybe it was written before they knew better.

I have been lampworking outside PLUS a stand fan now next to me to blow stuff away from my face. I did have a small fan under my table to blow up my body and into my face without disturbing the flame, but it just didn't seem to work very well.
Anyhoo, I felt like I was getting chest congestion. I stopped doing beads for a few days just in case- and it cleared. Then I started doing more this week and it came back so I'm pretty sure it's from the Nitrogen oxides. You won't even feel the damage until it's been done. Symptons can hit you 72 hours later. I read about a man that had been hospitalized for exposure,then released and relapsed months later. At least with Carbon monoxide you will notice something is wrong right then- dizziness, headache, nausea, etc. The nitrogen kind of hides in your lungs and then *BooM*. And it really REALLY damages the lungs.

Yes, we can all argue about this sanitizing the "genepool" from stupid people but I don't like to judge anyone so harshly. I don't feel there is enough information and serious warnings "out there" about this issue. When my mom took her lampwork class- no one mentioned this. If I hadn't found this site, read about safety and asked questions (thanks Mike, Dale and Brent), I'd still be down in the basement with a puny fan trying to suck garbage out a screen door. Even moving outdoors didn't totally get rid of the risk.

I'm not a flippin' moron either, just new to torchwork. My teacher's teacher didn't know too much either, obviously. ..and this class was at a major glass studio.

So the whole point to my rambling: ANYONE that teaches a class or churns out a book has a responsibility to mention safety risks. And don't just say "don't do this"...explain why. And I don't care if you have veterans in your class that have been doing it for years- you never know what someone else *doesn't* know (or wants to admit they may not know/feels embarassed or stupid to ask).

Maybe this should have went in the bathroom section???

AND... is there more risk using a hothead with a canister than using torches that take oxygen also? I would assume that since it's mixed with oxygen the better torch heads don't release as many "-oxides"...but those oxy-torches are probably also used for longer periods of time so maybe it evens out. Anyone know? Just curious.

Thanks Tracy
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  #4  
Old 2005-10-14, 5:09pm
silverfun silverfun is offline
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Ok, now you're scaring me.
I just bought the Fireworks torch head.
Got all excited that I was going to melt a piece of glass.
Hooked up a bottle of MAPP and turned it on.
It fires right up. Cool.
Oh, my gosh, the fumes were horrible. I'm used to propane and have never burned MAPP.
I turned it right off, disconnected it, and walked away.

I got the definite impression that stuff could kill me right away.
Now I start reading about fans, vents, and being outside, and I think, oh, crap.
What have I gotten myself into?

Now I don't know whether to turn the thing back on again or not.
I assumed it would be similar to my propane which I do work with without problems.

Now it looks like an expensive kiln is the least of my problems.

Is this thing going to blow up in my face or kill me dead where I sit if I'm just doing one small bead?
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  #5  
Old 2005-10-14, 6:48pm
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Dale M. Dale M. is offline
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Nah.... Just get a good hood and fan to draw out fumes, open a few window and let in some fresh air and you will be fine......

Just be sure hood/fan has enough capacity to remove all the bad gases....

That is stated simply.... There is actually a science to building safe ventilation, but that is another thread....

Yes you should be aware of the dangers. No, there is no reason to let it stop you from enjoying hot glass.

Dale M.
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Last edited by Dale M.; 2005-10-14 at 6:51pm.
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  #6  
Old 2005-10-14, 9:00pm
silverfun silverfun is offline
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Well, I have a large store, and had hoped to do the lampwork up front, but the MAPP gas is just too strong.
I have an area at the back of the building where I could set up a work area. Has 20 foot high ceilings and I could vent the area there.
Never had a problem with my silver work up front.
I did do a bead with my silver torch and it was so neat to watch the glass ball up.
But it's one of the small torch heads for finer silver work.

I suspect that MAPP gas will burn out pretty quick and at $7.00, that could get expensive real fast.

Thanks.
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  #7  
Old 2005-10-15, 8:44am
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Dale M. Dale M. is offline
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There are several thing, the you keep referring to here......

You keep mentioning fumes!... If you smell any fumes, your ventilation is inadequate and you should stop any torch work till adequate ventilation is in place. This means silver work or glass work. Keep in mind flame is quite a bit larger for glass torch than for jewelry torch and produces quite a bit more contaminated exhaust gas than jewelry torch.

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...08&postcount=4

If $7 a canister for MAPP gas bothers you. The alternative is BULK fuels for Hothead/Fireworks.... But given the lifespan of FIREWORKS torch I would not invest to heavily in bulk fuel as that particular brand of torch is prone to failure after a month or too...

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...02&postcount=1

Or consider going small oxygen/fuel torch like Minor or Bobcat or any other one that may fit your needs.

Dale M.
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  #8  
Old 2005-10-15, 8:57am
Just Nancy Just Nancy is offline
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Not to under estimate the very real concerns about ventilation, or hijack the thread, but, watch your furnaces as well. We had the same symptoms (before I started with my hot head) and before this was in the media much. Little did we know our furnace had a bad heat exchanger.

I'm only posting for those few who have a torch and a heat source from LP. If you have symptoms and think your ventilation is good you might need to also check your furnace.

Nancy

Last edited by Just Nancy; 2005-10-15 at 8:59am. Reason: typo
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  #9  
Old 2005-10-15, 9:31am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Nancy
Not to under estimate the very real concerns about ventilation, or hijack the thread, but, watch your furnaces as well. We had the same symptoms (before I started with my hot head) and before this was in the media much. Little did we know our furnace had a bad heat exchanger.

I'm only posting for those few who have a torch and a heat source from LP. If you have symptoms and think your ventilation is good you might need to also check your furnace.

Nancy
I would not consider this a hijack... It is a very valid concern and problem... Many people may have bad heat exchangers in furnace (I even wonder about my 30 year old one) and not be aware of it! Also possibly a clogged flue on furnace or gas hot water heater!

Dale M.
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  #10  
Old 2005-10-15, 9:55am
silverfun silverfun is offline
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A month or two is all my torch head is good for?

Shoot. I hadn't read that anywhere, or I would not have bought it.

Isn't that always the truth in buying too small to begin with.

I guess I'll have to find some way to vent it to begin with, as I don't want to see that stink re-circulated through the air conditioner or heater system.

Thanks again.
Got to get the thinking cap on.
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  #11  
Old 2005-10-15, 10:04am
Just Nancy Just Nancy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfun
A month or two is all my torch head is good for?
I hadn't heard that specific statistic before today. I do question that brand's quality for several reasons, mostly just personal experience and I could be wrong.

My guess is longevity will have to do in part with how often you use it and for how long. Don't panic yet, but do consider how long you might continue to use this torch before you purchase a bulk canister.

I have both a Fireworks and a traditional hot head. I 'upgraded' to a bulk tank when I got tired of the $7 canister (mostly because I couldn't even buy them in my county any longer). I estimated how long before I was likely to upgrade to a dual fuel and multiplied by how many $7 canisters I'd need. Then I compared what it would cost to buy my bulk tank and the cost of fuel. For me it was worth the change. I didn't have to keep messing with the 'disposable' canisters and saved a little money. Had I wanted to change torches sooner, the bulk tank would have been more costly.

Nancy
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Old 2005-10-15, 10:08am
Just Nancy Just Nancy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale M.
I would not consider this a hijack... It is a very valid concern and problem... Many people may have bad heat exchangers in furnace (I even wonder about my 30 year old one) and not be aware of it! Also possibly a clogged flue on furnace or gas hot water heater!

Dale M.
My guess is if you're not having regular headaches and the upset stomach you're good to go. And the contantly tired. Those are the symptoms I remember most. I was home with young kids and we didn't go out a lot. I just kept having nagging symptoms. My husband who worked out of the house didn't. Who knew. Now looking back I realized they'd subside a bit after a weekend at my mothers, usually on the way home. Which I assumed were from leaving the stress.

Seriously it is a serious issue and shouldn't be over looked. From either source of the fuel burning. I just wanted people to know if they check their ventilation from the torch and symptoms don't go away, keep looking to correct the problem.
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  #13  
Old 2005-10-25, 3:51pm
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sandra j ziolkowski sandra j ziolkowski is offline
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Its been awhile since I posted the original thread on carbon monixide poisoning and since then I have upgraded my studio with electric and a ventilation sytem 800 cfm fan, ( I was surprised how quiet it is) anyway I noticed a huge difference in the air quality. No more dizziness,headaches,nausia etc. I can work much longer and Im much more productive. I hope that it served to warn newbies like my self of the dangers that are not talked about enough. Not that we didnt hear alot about ventilation from others on this site but what the consequences are of poor ventilation.
And congratulations X Phoenician on your web site. Mine also should be up in a few months.
Sandi
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  #14  
Old 2005-10-25, 10:03pm
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x_phoenician x_phoenician is offline
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Thanks Sandi! I'm looking forward to seeing yours also. GoDaddy is having a special right now on domain names- $1.99 if you buy other services to go with it.
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