Kugler Iris Gold and BE? Can it be done?

[squid]

Kevan posted some beads yesterday that she made from a new glass:

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=30759

The pink and white one has Kugler Iris Gold stringer on it - and it is GORGEOUS!

Does anyone know if this glass can be used with BE? Is it one of the leaded glasses like the frits that you can use in small amounts?

Any feedback appreciated.

Thanks!

Sigrid

[Karen Hardy]

Kugler is 96 COE and BE is 90 COE.
They are not compatable. Some people will tell you
that "in small amounts" it's ok (5%) but I disagree.

Check my responses on this thread
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=30705
as to why I don't think it's a good idea
(and you can also see the fine and upstanding citizens that
disagree with me! Not everybody agrees).

[squid]

Originally Posted by Karen Hardy

Kugler is 96 COE and BE is 90 COE.
They are not compatable. Some people will tell you
that "in small amounts" it's ok (5%) but I disagree.

Check my responses on this thread
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=30705
as to why I don't think it's a good idea
(and you can also see the fine and upstanding citizens that
disagree with me! Not everybody agrees).

I'm actually the one that started the thread to which you are referring. I understand the caveats with incompatible COEs - what I am actually trying to find out is if the Kugler Iris Gold is a leaded furnace glass that lends itself to "fudging".

Thanks for the feedback on the prior thread (and this one) . It's good to get the whole story.

Thanks

Sigrid

[evilglass]

well, considering that moretti is 104....96 is closer math wise to 90 than 104, right? I'd probably try it and see what happened. Val Cox used to use bullseye exclusively, and didn't she start all the 96 frit stuff?

[shawnette]

Yes, it can be done with BE. You would be using it as surface decoration and not "mixing" it.

[squid]

Originally Posted by shawnette

Yes, it can be done with BE. You would be using it as surface decoration and not "mixing" it.

Thanks Shawnette - you are always a great source of information - thanks for sharing your experiences.

[MaryBeth]

Yes - I have done it! I have some BE beads with Kugler gold surface dots on them around here someplace - they are going on 4 years old. They get tossed around and beat up a lot - I had them out where I could gaze upon their golden beauty but then I put them somewhere else - I guess I should dig them out again. They are still in perfect condition. The gold and French vanilla is yummy as well as with any of the ambers.

[lldesigns]

Any ideas on where the iris gold can be found? It seems to be sold out everywhere.

[squid]

Originally Posted by MaryBeth

Yes - I have done it! I have some BE beads with Kugler gold surface dots on them around here someplace - they are going on 4 years old. They get tossed around and beat up a lot - I had them out where I could gaze upon their golden beauty but then I put them somewhere else - I guess I should dig them out again. They are still in perfect condition. The gold and French vanilla is yummy as well as with any of the ambers.

Thanks for the French Vanilla tip!

Sigrid

[shawnette]

Originally Posted by lldesigns

Any ideas on where the iris gold can be found? It seems to be sold out everywhere.

www.hotglasscolor.com

[squid]

Originally Posted by shawnette

www.hotglasscolor.com

It appears there is a 1 kilo minimum...... ouch!

edited to add:

here is some on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting

2 ounces - lot more expensive per ounce, but cheaper in the short run

[shawnette]

Originally Posted by squid

It appears there is a 1 kilo minimum...... ouch!

edited to add:

here is some on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting

2 ounces - lot more expensive per ounce, but cheaper in the short run

They sell their frits in small packages, also, unlike OCR. The link to the frit jars is on the home page: http://www.hotglasscolor.com/htmlpages/fritjars.html

$5.99 for a 2oz jar of Iris Gold (K218 ).

Edited to add: I just clicked on the link you provided. Bill is awesome!! He also has a store at the Annealer, as he's trying to get away from the Ebay fees. I would recommend him as a seller any day!

[evilglass]

also wanted to say, because i thought about this more.

What's the COE of palladium? Gold? Silver? Mica? CZs?

Those are used, who knows about 5%, and encased all the time...

things that make you go hmmmm....

[MaryBeth]

Originally Posted by evilglass

also wanted to say, because i thought about this more.

What's the COE of palladium? Gold? Silver? Mica? CZs?

Those are used, who knows about 5%, and encased all the time...

things that make you go hmmmm....

Exactly! And many people encase huge hunks of copper mesh. And reduction frits have been used with Moretti for ages. (OK - at least ages in the beadmaking world.)

[pam]

Can someone tell me where they are getting the information that Kugler glass is 96 coe? Have they changed their coe in the past couple of years? Kugler, Reichenbach, and all the other glassblowing glasses, except for Gaffer, have always been between 89 and 94. I'm really curious if they have changed their coe.

[evilglass]

I have it from inferring it, I think....I use reichenback, not kugler, though

[pam]

Okay, what I have learned this morning.

From the Kugler website: Coefficient of expansion calculated:
93 ± 2 x 10-7

From the Reichenbach site:
Coefficient of expansion:
94 (+ /- 2) x 10-7/K


Sprucepine Batch has the following listed on their site regarding coe's of Kugler, Reichenbach, Glo Glass and Ullman, "When fused to another glass or used hot as in lampworking or furnace work (glassblowing) these colors will "fit" other glasses in a range of coefficient of expansion from 85 to 98. However, not all colors will fit the same glass. Although these colors were designed to 'fit" each other, this is not always true. A series of experimental pieces to determine "fit" is recommended before the color is selected for production use. With all high expansion or soft glasses proper annealing is necessary."

[evilglass]

check this out...from warmglass.com
http://www.warmglass.com/COESummary.htm

They show the coe of gold to be 140, copper is 176, silver is 191. Didn't see palladium or mica, and I'm not going to try to find the COE of CZ's, LOL.

That's a much larger difference than even 90 to 104, and it seems to be acceptable to use those materials. I'm learning a lot with this! I can find the COE of all sorts of things in scientific notation, but I'm having difficulty finding it in the notation we're all used to.

[MaryBeth]

Pam - thanks for posting that info! I was starting to wonder if I was nuts - I had seen the same information that you had posted - which makes most furnace glasses fairly close in COE to Bullseye. I didn't know where that 96 number was coming from either.

I do agree some testing needs to be done by each user in regards to different colors - this isn't paint by numbers afterall

Thanks for the metals COE, evilglass! I knew they were different - but I didn't know how different.

[Rachel]

Hi. I called the hotglasscolor place and they said there is no minimum amount you have to order. They have the Kugler 218 cane in two different sizes and I ordered a half pound. Just thought I'd trhow that in.

[xiola blue]

I recall seeing in the posts yesterday that Frantz has the Kugler iris gold as stringer...I haven't checked it out but someone may want to. xiola

[lavendar420]

i use reduction frits with bullseye, i just did a ton of it yesterday, having received my mystery pack from val! i encased some to see what would happen... we'll see. since you're asking about the iris gold though, i have to ask, what about using the bulleye amber lustre? it actually *is* compatible, and lightly reduced it is very lovely.

[pam]

The Kugler and Reichenbach Iris Gold are compatible with BE. Glasses are determined as compatible if they are within 3 to 4 points of the coe of the base glass.

I have used Iris Gold since the mid-90's with BE, and have never had a problem.

[castaway]

Hooray, at last some of you are questioning those wild claims of a 96 COE for Kugler. I have been using it with bullseye for 20 years. I might suggest that any of you who claim to be at all professional to do your testing and don't use anything that you haven't tested and found to be OK,. If you don't and your work cracks you will look like an amateur.
B

[jhana]

Are Kugler and Reichenbach Iris Gold the same glass as far as the effects you get?

[pam]

Actually, over the years I have found Reichenbach to be more reactive than Kugler, but that is just my experience.

[Rebekah]

Wouldn't it have more to do with the viscosity of the different glasses that you're trying to use together than their COE?

[evilglass]

I don't know about what makes it work, but considering how huge the differences for gold, silver, and copper are, it's got to be something other than just COE, though I'm sure COE is a factor.

[MaryBeth]

Originally Posted by FrontHallGlass

Wouldn't it have more to do with the viscosity of the different glasses that you're trying to use together than their COE?

You've got it That in combination with the COE determines the fit. I guess I'm going to have to try to did up that BE article - I don't know if it is on their site anymore.

[jhana]

Originally Posted by pam

Actually, over the years I have found Reichenbach to be more reactive than Kugler, but that is just my experience.

So, the gold effect Kevan is getting with the Kugler iris gold is much the same with Reichenbach?