I can't make a round bead, HELP!

burnt sand beads · #1 2007-06-21, 10:31am

I am just getting into lampworking and for the life of me I can't get my beads to be nice and symetrically round. They are always "higher" in one area. Any techniques or different ways to make rounds? I have been trying the coil method. Thanks!

ellyloo · #2 2007-06-21, 11:46am

Heat it allll up until it moves on your mandrel and get it to slide around until the lump spreads itself out more...

AnnDK · #3 2007-06-21, 12:01pm

My biggest "WOW" was when I realized glass WANT to be round, all it needs is heat and patience (and this wasn't too long ago).

Ann

Jane P · #4 2007-06-21, 1:37pm

I had an awful time with this too - until a very kind lady showed me just what to do. Apply your glass to the mandrel as usual, heat up the glass in the flame then take the mandrel below the flame, all the time turning, then back in the flame to heat up again, and back down below - all the time turning. You need to shape the bead out of the flame. A few times doing this and my beads now are nearly always symetrical. Hope that makes sense, and good luck.

burnt sand beads · #5 2007-06-22, 8:33am

Thanks so much everyone for the great suggestions, I'm going to give all of them a try!

Hothead Beads · #6 2007-06-22, 9:16am

If your bead is higher on one side you are probably not holding the mandrel level.

Dale M. · #7 2007-06-22, 9:47am

There are several thing working for and against you here ...

IF glass is hot enough, it is a liquid... A liquid when suspended in space (rain drop) tries to form a perfect sphere as it travels through space.... This is "liquid dynamics" at work... What is working against you is gravity...

Since sphere (liquid glass) can not fall through space (its restrained on mandrel) it is drawn down or sags off bottom of mandrel... This is gravity working against you, gravity tends to pull on side closes to earth (bottom) ...

So if you rotate mandrel at proper speed you subject sphere to equal amounts of gravity on all faces of its circumference.... Providing the "thermal dynamics" (internal heat of sphere) allow the glass to be liquid (liquid dynamics) enough to react to gravity....

If you rotate mandrel to fast centrifugal force causes glass sphere to be forced outward and you loose perfect sphere shape and it becomes more a donut shape..... This means you are rotating mandrel to fast (if you want perfect sphere)... Desirable if you want a donut....

Take a wind of glass on mandrel and work it... Get it to hot, let it cool, spin it fast, spin it slow... Stop spinning it... Hold mandrel off level (one end lower that other). Look at what the glob of glass is doing, how it reacts to what you are doing..... Forget making a bead, learn what the heat and gravity and centrifugal force it doing to the molten glass glob....

After you have played with this for some time , then apply what you have learned to how you want to shape bead....

Bottom line is simply more or less heat and rotate mandrel more or less.... Once you have shape you desire slowly work it out in to cooler part of flame so glass becomes less liquid and is capable of retaining its shape....

Its all a learned logic....

Dale

Hayley · #8 2007-06-22, 10:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale M.

Take a wind of glass on mandrel and work it... Get it to hot, let it cool, spin it fast, spin it slow... Stop spinning it... Hold mandrel off level (one end lower that other). Look at what the glob of glass is doing, how it react to what you are doing..... Forget making a bead, learn what the heat and gravity and centrifugal force it doing to the molten glass glob....

Dale

That's the best advice I have ever read for a beginner . . . wish I was told this when I was starting out!

beadgoodies · #9 2007-06-22, 12:15pm

The easiest way I've found to make round beads is to make a doughnut bead as usual and then tilt your mandrel to the right and then to the left. You let gravity and heat do all the work. With practice, you'll know how far to either side you need to go for the amount of glass on your mandrel to make the perfect round bead. VERY easy!!

Candy

FourTailsLampwork · #10 2007-06-23, 5:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayley

That's the best advice I have ever read for a beginner . . . wish I was told this when I was starting out!

Me, too. I think we can be so focused on making a perfect bead when we first start out that we forget that making a less-than-perfect-blob'of-glass that has allowed us to really get a feel for what glass does is just as valuable, if not more so.

Dale M. · #11 2007-06-23, 8:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mincot

Me, too. I think we can be so focused on making a perfect bead when we first start out that we forget that making a less-than-perfect-blob'of-glass that has allowed us to really get a feel for what glass does is just as valuable, if not more so.

The problem with teaching/learing is we are trying right off to make beads... We are not taught how to manipulate glass.....

Dale

PaulaD · #12 2007-06-23, 4:45pm

Smircich has a good tutorial on his website.
But the key is to keep your core cool while you are meling in and turning. Paula

wendbill · #13 2007-06-23, 5:19pm

A couple of good links for good round beads.

From Maureen Kennedy's site
http://www173.pair.com/mirish2u/roundbed.htm

From Smircich's site
http://www.smircich.com/html/round_bead.html

Dale has excellent advice there too. I wish someone had said that to me originally too. We're all so keen to make beads but it would have made a lot of sense to spend more time thinking about the way glass moves. And playing with how glass moves, rather immediately trying to get a decent bead.

It's all a learning curve when everything is new. Makes me wonder if the learning curve would have been faster.

What I find interesting is when I'm watiching the occasional beadmaking dvd, is usually how SLOW the teacher turns the mandrel. Once I slowed down, my beads improved.

minnie1971 · #14 2007-06-25, 8:12am

I use arm rests to keep my mandrel level, my beads are always round and this also takes the strain off my wrists. Years ago when I first started making beads the only video available (as there weren't any classes available then)was Kate Fowle Meleny's. She makes her beads in the center of the mandrel. I've taken 2 classes with her and she is one of the best bead makers out there! Making beads in the middle of the mandrel gives me much more stability, and I can hold onto each end of the mandrel,therefore I can grasp each end of the mandrel and turn the mandrel from one side to the other for great ease and precise decorating. My dots, stringer application etc. are very easy working this way. I've taken several classes from various well known bead makers and they were always trying to get me to make my beads on the tip of the mandrel. I've even had one very well know beadmaker say that Kate has ruined many great potential beadmakers. He was quite arrogant, I think he was just upset that he didn't think of this ingeneous idea himself!Believe me I've tried making beads on the end of the mandrel just to make these beadmakers happy but this did not work out for me. I found it very akward. Other students that I've taken classes with tried the middle of the mandrel method and could not get used to it either. It's hard to teach old beadmakers new tricks, I'm very happy making beads my mine and Kate's way! I've also come up with a way to dip just the middle of the mandrel as I'm very cheap and do not want to waste the bead release or get it on my hands. If one stops and thinks about making beads this way it makes perferct sense. Thank you Kate! Does anyone else out there use this method? Take care.
lesbatts

minnie1971 · #15 2007-06-25, 8:15am

Sorry, I should have previewed my post before I sent it. My spelling sucks!
lesbatts

villa design · #16 2007-06-25, 11:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale M.

The problem with teaching/learing is we are trying right off to make beads... We are not taught how to manipulate glass.....

Dale

Very good advice Dale!

Six months in, I started using a graphic marver with a hole drilled in the corner to help me steady the mandrel as I was turning. That was my HA HA moment, I can make a round bead!

minnie1971 · #17 2007-06-27, 5:48am

If you make your beads in the middle of the mandrel you don't need a mandrel holder as you can hold onto your mandrel from both ends.
lesbatts

burnt sand beads · #18 2007-06-29, 4:40pm

Great ideas- how do you get a nice uniform amount of bead release on just the middle of the mandrel?

Dale M. · #19 2007-06-29, 6:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnt sand beads

Great ideas- how do you get a nice uniform amount of bead release on just the middle of the mandrel?

You take something like a shallow jar lid and pour bead release into it till it just reaches the rim... You lay the mandrel across jar lid so mandrel contacts the bead release and rotate mandrel. Once mandrel is coated lift mandrel off and set aside to dry...

Dale

Peach Blossom Beads · #20 2007-06-29, 7:23pm

Or you can a very tall, very thin jar (look in your fridge) and fill it with release. Then grab another jar, a small one and fill it with water. You dip your mandrel into the release as far as you want it to go (past the middle) so you have a "handle" on one side. Then dip just the end of the same mandrel into the water. Dip just enough so you only take off what you want and have a "handle" on the other side. Swish it around so the water removes the release. Viola! You have the rest on the middle of the mandrel. Now, the jar with the water - the release will sink to the bottom. If you do this enough, it builds up in the jar and you can poor off the excess water. Now you have more usable release. No waste. Apparently this is how Kate-Fowle Meleny does it.

Rachel · #21 2007-06-29, 8:00pm

I couldn't make beads without my paddle like that. I must have it!

Shawn T was my first teacher and she taught us a lot about the glass movement and safety way before we started making the beads. I was happy to do any of it but we ended the class with something we could all take home and be proud of. I usually go for a donut shape but if I really want it round, I make a thin barrel shaped bead. I wrap two discs on the ends and melt it all in nice and even and smooth and let the two discs meet in the middle. It was in one of my books and it does work. You can use the same color or differnent colors.

Keep up the practice and know you aren't the only one that struggles with this. I had a hard time with it too. I had a whole lot of beads that got mashed along the way!

Great advice Dale.

Quote:

Originally Posted by villa design

Very good advice Dale!

Six months in, I started using a graphic marver with a hole drilled in the corner to help me steady the mandrel as I was turning. That was my HA HA moment, I can make a round bead!

burnt sand beads · #22 2007-06-30, 8:50pm

Now I am dying to get a graphite marver with a hole drilled in the corner! I drove over to Glasscraft yesterday to buy one, but, they were out of stock!!! So, not wanting to waste a trip, I bought a bunch of pretty odd lot glass! I have been looking for other vendors, but so far Glasscraft seems to have the best price. I have been trying the bead release in the middle trick, and it is helping! Maybe there's hope!

minnie1971 · #23 2007-07-02, 10:39am

Hi all,
As I mentioned on another thread I have an antique ashtray set that belonged to my grandmother.
It has two indentations on each end. I pour my bead release in the middle of the ashtray with the ends sticking out therefore I only get the bead release in the middle.
As a non-smoker I'm glad I could find a use for an otherwise useless object.
Really cool!!!!!!

Leslie