started yesterday and all my glass becomes grey

smiltroy · #1 2007-09-30, 1:31am

hi, i have a HotHead and just started yesterday finally

but when i aproach the glass from the fire it becomes dirty
i will attatch some pictures of my glass rods, and some with my first beads and the rods i used so you can see how different it becomes

i would appreciate your help

and also i would like to say thank you dale for all your help, you are the reason im finnaly beadmaking, i know im always bothering you and you are always willing to help, for that, thank you

the orange and yellow one was the one similiar to the glass rods i think, but it wasnt the last to be made, so it was not a question of letting the gas flow i think

i allready read something about some dirty gas theory but didnt came to any conclusion, can anyone help please?

and also, will this happen also when i move to a minor burner?

and also, can i have my propane tank always open, and open and shut the HH as i make one bead and rest for a while for example, and then open the HH and light it again?

and also, i cant get my beads out of the mandrels, lol
how do i do that? and do i have to put more bead release?

Kevan · #2 2007-09-30, 2:02am

Oh no! That's not right. Other people use HHs and that doesn't happen. I've never used on so I can't be much help there, but I'm sorry to see that happening. I'm sure someone will help you fix it though.

Are you putting the mandels in water for a while first? Use some really good pliers, hold the mandrels in the middle with them in your right hand and I use a paper towel in my left hand and twist back and forth til they slide off. Sometimes I have to soak them again if they are really stubborn. You get a better grip with a paper towel in your hand and if the bead breaks you won't cut yourself.

Judi_B · #3 2007-09-30, 4:11am

The problem comes from soot in the flame. Try turning your flame down as much as you can without it going out and then work further out in the flame. Practice with a light color rod by putting it in at the tip of the flame and then moving it toward you. You should be able to see where you start to get soot on the glass and need to work just beyond that point. On turning the propane on/off, yes you can leave the tank open and turn the gas on/off at the torch during a work session. Be sure to turn the gas off at the tank at the end of each session and bleed the line if you are using a bulk tank set-up. If you are using a bulk tank, you will also need to take the hose off and hang it up to drain the "gunk" out about once a week.

woozles · #4 2007-09-30, 5:05am

I just started at the end of this past April. Looks like you are burning the glass.

I turn my propane on just barely - about a quarter turn or less. Then I turn my hothead on and adjust the flame down to the smallest possible flame. I work just beyond the tip of the blue flame. Once I started doing this I could even work the albasters and opalinos (except for yellow) without burning the glass.

If I am just not using the torch for a minute or two, I will turn the torch itself off and leave the propane on. But if you are walking away from the area, I think it is good practice to always turn the propane itself off. As Judi suggests always bleed your lien at the end of your session as well.

Good luck!

lunamoonshadow · #5 2007-09-30, 5:52am

I've been told (and it seems to be true with my bulk tank anyway) that your PROPANE tank should always be ALL THE WAY OPEN to prevent misfunction of the valve inside.

At any rate--turn DOWN the hothead--you've got it up way too high--it doesn't need to be a "dragon" fire! Then "back away from the flame" with the glass--it doesn't need to be right down in the torch head!!

If you're wearing didy's, get a pair of clear safety glasses for a few minutes (I'd ALWAYS wear eye protection!!) & switch to them for a few beads--it's safe with a hothead & soft glass--& watch for where the soda-flare "starts" when you introduce the bead to the flame & the rod to the flame--if it's huge & flaring, you're TOO CLOSE & THE BEAD IS TOO HOT!! You just want nice, soft flares off of the glass--not "none" & not "huge"--just "some"--once you've found that nice sweet spot, (right above the blue cone in the flame, usually about 3"-4" out or so) then you'll get an idea of where your glass belongs...

You'll notice (if you read a bunch of boards for long enough) a *lot* of beadmakers will admit on occasion to "peeping over the top" of their didy's to check on their beads/colors/flame positions because the didy's just filter out *everything* useful sometimes!!--instead of "peeping" when you're new (which scares me anyway--if you're looking over the top--that means your EYEBALLS are EXPOSED & could get hit by flying chips!!) just wear a good pair of clear safety glasses (like, $5 at your local hardware store!!) either over your didy's so you can "peep" or if you're on a hothead, *instead* of the didy's till you figure out what you're doing! Heck, there are days I still wear my clear glasses for an entire session if I'm using "new" glass!

~luna
(oh & with clear lenses you can *see* the glass when it starts to burn too!)

ISN'T MELTING STUFF SUCH FUN!! I just love, love, love it!!!

Glasstastic Treasures · #6 2007-09-30, 6:03am

I agree, turn it down some a the torchhead, not at the tank. And hold your glass back away from the cone flame. You may be too close to the torch.

Let us know how it goes.

Glasstastic Treasures · #7 2007-09-30, 6:03am

sorry, unless you are using 1 pounders, the only adjustment you will have is on the torch head.

Flonche · #8 2007-09-30, 8:38am

Also from your pictures (at least on pix 2, 3, 5, 7) it looks like you're not dipping your mandrels enough. I dip mine up to 3 or 4 inches long and make the bead right in the middle. If some glass is stuck on bare metal, i've learned to give up (or if I see it when the bead is still hot, I plunge it in my water bowl so that it breaks off the mandrel).

I also get discouraged sometimes by glass turning yuck, but it's a matter of trying and trying again, as everybody said.
Good luck!

Lorraine Chandler · #9 2007-09-30, 9:25am

Your profile doesn't say where you live but I am sure if a lampworker lives near enough to you that you could get together with them and get some help.

Taking a class is worth its weight in gold if you can get to one.

I know the thread..calling all hothead users is a very long one, but it well worth the time to sit down and read through it all.

Be patient, keep the flame low..almost to the point of going out and then work about 2 and 1/2-3 inches from the tip of the torch.

I turn my hothead flame on high and then back down ( without didys) on the flame watching the inner blue core of it until it turns a different color of blue..and is well defined. Hard to explain but if I turn much past that my flame goes out. That seems to be where the glass is happiest at.

From the looks of your glass you are way too close to the torch, also do as the others said and dip your mandrels about 4 inches into the bead release then work in the middle o the release. You will be able to hold the mandrel much more steady and keep it level. That way your beads will be more evenly balanced.

All in all lampworking is harder than it looks, more expensive than you would ever know and so much more rewarding than you can imagine when the little boogers come out right!!! and compliments abound or sales happen.

Hugs
Lorraine

smiltroy · #10 2007-09-30, 1:18pm

thank you all, i will try that as soon as i can

and get back to you, thank you for all the help, i apreciate it.

im from portugal and there is no one making beads here, at least that im know of, no one here even knows what it is, lol
so i dont have anyone to send my beads for annealing or to ask for help

i will just stick with you and your kind help

Bluejeangirlnc · #11 2007-09-30, 7:29pm

I got a good suggestion from one of the vendors here to put your bead release in a narrow prescription medicine bottle (like from a pharmacy) or some kind of narrow jar with a close tight lid. That allows you to coat a larger portion of your mandrel (helpful when trying to make barrel type beads).

I agree with everyone else that you're working way too hot since it looks like in several pictures you've cooked off your bead release. The best piece of advice I can give you (and I've only been doing this since the middle of August) is to keep practicing and reading as much as you can from all over the internet.

Here's a link I stumbled on a week or two ago that helped me make beads with much better ends on them: http://www.smircich.com/html/round_bead.html

I hope this is of some help to you. Good luck!

Simply Lampwork · #12 2007-09-30, 7:47pm

I started years ago on a hot head. Looks like you are using straight propane, if so stay as high as you can in the flame as you can. You will still burn color. Black and pea green were good colors to learn control with out burning. They will take more heat. I wanted to use more color with success so I bought a torch that could handle the map gas. Careful not all torches can use map gas, if your torch was about $10.00 it will not be rated for map gas. Map gas is propane mixed with oxygen so you will be able to control color much better. The best is to ask santa for a minor, the HH will teach big control with hard to handle methods and what not to do. You will be better when you get a better torch, keep playing with hot glass!
Years later here is how I play.

Glasstastic Treasures · #13 2007-10-01, 10:09am

simply lampwork, are those beads made on HH or minor? They are beautiful!!

lunamoonshadow · #14 2007-10-01, 10:51am

You *can* make beautiful beads with a HOTHEAD TORCH.
Nikki-the-Sheep Goddess does it all the time
This is one of her encased florals--no soot, no issues with the heavy *clear* encasing (which is MORETTI by the way!), & she's on bulk propane!) with pink frits & twistie canes AND a DOZEN encased cubic zirconias! inside:

This is one of her dragonfly beads:

and...one of her *hysterically funny* (and a little rude) little sculptures--he's a bit *over* 2" tall if I remember correctly--proving you can work rather "large" on a hothead once you learn to control the heat properly!

Gelly also does all of HER work on a hothead as well--amazing piglets, gorgous florals, just lovely work.
So does Sarah Hornik--her organics are just AMAZING.
*Naos* (Amber) is another hothead user--her beads regularly go for $$$ on ebay.
Don't discount your little torch too quickly--it takes PPP, but with time you can produce some *amazing* work with it if you take the time to learn to MASTER IT!!!
~luna

Emily · #15 2007-10-01, 3:11pm

Everybody is giving you good advice. Black soot on beads often means that you're working too close to the head of the torch. Hold your bead further out in the flame.

The shapes of your beads also show that you're overheating your glass. The glass shouldn't all pull together in the center and leave sharp ends like the white bead did. The more heat you give to the glass, the more the glass will want to draw together like that. You can fix it by tilting your mandrel and letting the glass flow toward the end that's tilted down. Keep turning the mandrel as it's tilted down so the glass flows evenly. You can heat the glass as it's flowing, or if the glass is already glowing hot, hold the mandrel out of the flame and let the glass flow. Once you do one side, then heat the glass on the other side of the bunched-up center and let it flow toward the other side. You can roll the ends on a graphite paddle to smooth them out. It takes some practice to get a nice shape, but practice is what learning beadmaking is all about.

Do some playing with heat and gravity. The bead doesn't have to be right in the flame every single second. You'll never get a good shape if you keep the bead glowing orange hot all the time, and it will be impossible to decorate it. The glass is drippy glowing hot when you're applying it (mostly) and when you're laying down the basic shape. Usually after that, it's cooler. You have to keep the bead warm so it doesn't crack, but once you establish the basic shape, you're usually giving the whole thing gentle heat, or you're giving specific parts more heat, because you're working on those specific parts.

When you have a bead that's off-center, or that has a bump where you don't want a bump, heat the part that you want to move until it's glowing orange, and then tilt the mandrel in the direction you want the glass to go. Use gravity to move the glass. Sometimes it helps to warm the place where you want the glass to go to, because glass likes to follow the heat. Play with heating places on a bead and moving the mandrel and letting the glass flow.

When you warm your bead release before putting glass on, don't get it too hot for too long. Try to heat the bead release only once, and heat only where you will put the glass. If bead release is heated and then reheated, sometimes it cracks. It can fall off, or just crack and let glass touch bare metal. If that happens, sometimes the beads get stuck and won't come off.

Good luck and keep practicing. It all gets better from here!

Glasstastic Treasures · #16 2007-10-01, 3:22pm

very beautiful examples of hothead work. I turned my torch down, myself, as suggested. After reading this I thought I might be using too much gas. But I find that I tend to hold my work too close to the cone and burn my glass.

I need to just stick with what works for me and turn it back up a bit and back off.

This is an implossion bead I just did yesterday, first time. I had the torch down low and was trying to be very careful that I didn't make it go wonky. It turned out wonderfully, but sooty. So I definately need to turn it back up a bit and back off.

Sorry, can't get the picture smaller, it's like a planet!!

NLC Beads · #17 2007-10-01, 3:32pm

If you look at the flame, it looks like 2 cones - one more pronounced towards the torch head, and a softer one further out. I work at the closest at the tip of the brighter flame. The only reason I bring my glass closer to the torch head is if I'm trying to reduce it, or overheat ivory with intense black or something.

I start the torch with low propane pressure, if you look close to the torch head it looks like it's sputtering a bit - turn it up until it's not sputtering anymore, but barely. There's your base line for lowest heat.

Work above the cone, start with that level of heat/propane, and adjust as you need to. if I'm working a larger encased floral, I turn the heat up more, but I'll also move a bit higher in the flame to make sure it doesn't burn. I have had larger ones burn on the last encasing if I'm not careful.

Also, watch how you use your graphite paddle - I wasn't very good on learning to not use it in the flame, and if it gets too hot, it leaves marks. I'll wipe it (when it's cold!) on my pant leg to make sure it's clean, too.

Good luck! Patience will be your best friend, I swear.

jaci · #18 2007-10-01, 5:23pm

I work my torch turned up just enough that where the flame meets the torch there is uniformity. (You will notice "mini cones ^^^^^ around the head of the torch) I work about 3-4 inches above the torch itself. I love my HH!!!

ROC · #19 2007-10-01, 8:07pm

Welcome to the wonderful world of glass! My first week I spent making sooty beads. I started working about 1" away from the BIG blue cone on my HH (using mapp gas) and haven't had a problem since. If you have mapp available, it burns cleaner than propane, as someone posted earlier. Good luck!

smiltroy · #20 2007-10-03, 9:41am

hi again, i went and did some more beads following your advices

at my 2nd atempt i got these

and at my 3rd atempt i got these

i couldnt done it without your help

Flonche · #21 2007-10-03, 9:44am

Woo-hooooo! You did it!

kbinkster · #22 2007-10-03, 9:52am

Good job! The colors are much better! Keep up the good work!!!

I started out on a HotHead torch with MAPP gas and switched to propane. MAPP gas is actually dirtier than propane (meaning it has more additives, like acetylene), which is why it burns a little hotter than propane. However, the difference is not worth the increase in price, IMO. I would stick with the propane while you're on your HotHead, and then, if you ever switch to an oxygen/fuel torch, you will already have a propane tank.

NLC Beads · #23 2007-10-04, 9:36pm

Congrats! Brighter colors are a plus!

Keep showing off your work - there's usually a HotHead thread in the Gallery, too!

lunesse · #24 2007-10-04, 9:48pm

Awesome! you did it! Those colors are terrific!

jaci · #25 2007-10-04, 10:24pm

Wonderful! i love the third one! great puckered end and great shape! you should be proud!!!!

Listenup · #26 2007-10-05, 9:03am

Keep at it and as you've already seen, the more you work on it, the better you will get. Your colors and technique have already improved bunches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smiltroy

so i dont have anyone to send my beads for annealing or to ask for help

I just checked and to send a small 2 pound package to the US costs $16.80 so it's not impossible to get your beads annealed, just a bit pricey. And of course, you can always ask herre for help - as you've already found out.

Enjoy the addiction!

-Kay

dogmama45 · #27 2008-03-10, 8:16pm

Thanks, I had the same question and I'll try doing what you said. I ordered my Hothead torch yesterday, but I think my problem is where I'm working in the flame. I'm using just a Fireworks torch and a Benzomatic torch when I ran out of MAPP.
Thanks again!
dogmama45