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| Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2008-04-29, 2:39pm
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Resident Luny
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Pandora/Biaggi/Troll Confusion
I posted in the garage awhile back looking for a less expensive way to get a single Pandora type bracelet for photos for my Pandora beads. Someone said they had a Biaggi that would work at a good price, so I bought it. But my bead doesn't fit! The chain part would, but the cap on the end does not. Would this bead work on a Pandora? I don't have one to test it on, and now I am nervous, regardless of having a bracelet to photograph it on. The tubing I have is :5/32" 100-905 OD: .188"; ID: .156" from Rio.
Now I have a Biaggi that is useless, or a bunch of tubing to get through that is useless.
I have the listing of Rio Tubing, but only for Pandora, I guess.
Can someone please list in order of diameter of hole needed, from small to large, what bracelets are out there, and what tubing is the minimum needed for each?
I'm pretty bummed out.
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2008-04-29, 2:44pm
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I need more boro stuff
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Lunasse, Pandora and Biagi have the same size end screw bit (4.3mm).
So you need the tubing that at least has 4.4mm or 4.5mm ID.
Atm, I'm using Biagi bracelet to take picture of my beads.
Troll bracelet on other hand is smaller. I don't know exactly the size of troll bracelet. I don't have any.
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2008-04-29, 2:54pm
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Resident Luny
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Sooooo....what tubing do I need from Rio?
Bueller? I am glad I bought only one piece of tubing of what I did... I guess I will just try to sell them as bigger hole beads, not spec. for these bracelets.
And I will have to ream them bigger, which is a pain, pain, pain. Why did someone say 5/32 mandrels work, then, in the first place? WTF?
My cut n paste from a discussion on this from here says:
3/16" 100-905 OD: .188"; ID: .156" This should work for both 5/32 and 3/16. (Pandora)
Now I am really pissed off.
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2008-04-29, 3:13pm
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Missing presumed fed
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Maybe they'll fit Troll. Anybody know what the necessary interior diameter for Troll is?
My understanding is that plain glass beads -- uncored -- made on a 5/32 mandrel will fit Pandora & Biaggi. Is this right? I don't have a bracelet to test them on either. Maybe I'd better get one.
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2008-04-29, 3:24pm
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Storm Queen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily
My understanding is that plain glass beads -- uncored -- made on a 5/32 mandrel will fit Pandora & Biaggi. Is this right? I don't have a bracelet to test them on either. Maybe I'd better get one.
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Yes. I think I got the same cheap bracelet you got lunesse and it fits through my uncored beads made on a 5/32 mandrel double dipped. If I put a core in it then it wouldn't fit. I've read that you need a 1/4" mandrel for the cored ones.
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2008-04-29, 3:26pm
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Storm Queen
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Oh wait...I reread your post and I got a cheap pandora bracelet from someone in the Garage so maybe we didn't get the same one.
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2008-04-29, 3:30pm
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I need more boro stuff
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I saw the tubing at: http://www.metalliferous.com/pdf/sil...und%20Tube.pdf (stock# STB409B)
Anyone has any idea how big is 0.20" in mm? This tube might fit perfectly for Pandora (if the tube has 4.5mm ID) and you still can use your 3/16" mandrel.
Does Rio Grande have the same size of tubing?
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2008-04-29, 3:49pm
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Resident Luny
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Ah so the tubing must be my issue. I will make one without tubing and see what happens.
Sometimes I am a dolt.
Still, then I will have to move up bigger for tubing, as it is pretty snug in the hole, probably.
Maybe I will try double dipping with one size up tubing.
Whatever one size up is. Folks? what are you using from Rio for tubing?
I still don't get why the discussion said that the size I bought would WORK for Pandora, if it has too small an ID for the cap. I mean. Yes, it fit a 5/32 mandrel....but NOT a Pandora/Biaggi.
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2008-04-29, 4:45pm
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That looked sort of like my quote, so I went back to the thread here. I hope mine wasn't confusing, my post doesn't list the pandora part. 
Here's a summary of Rio part numbers, mandrel size, and outer diameter of tubing needed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyndaJ
Here's a summary of Rio part numbers, mandrel size, and outer diameter of tubing needed.
3/32" 100-955 OD: .114"; ID: .082"
5/32" 100-905 OD: .188"; ID: .156"
3/16" 100-905 OD: .188"; ID: .156" This should work for both 5/32 and 3/16.
1/4" 100-907/14 OD: .250"; ID: .218"
1/2" 100-907/12 OD: .500"; ID: .468"
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These are the tubing sizes needed for each size mandrel. Mandrel size is listed on the left.
All other posts I've seen agree that biaggi logo and pandora logo bracelets need 1/4" mandrel and tubing to fit over the ends.
If you're doing bare glass beads, 3/16 and 5/32 will fit. Here, I can only personnaly vouch for the 3/16, that' s what I use.
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2008-04-29, 8:24pm
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Resident Luny
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Gaaaah.
Well, I will try a double dip first, before shelling out for more.Thanks!
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2008-04-30, 5:49am
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Senior Member
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Carli:
You know why you kept reading that 5/32" would fit Pandora? Because some people are confused and the ones who aren't don't take the time to qualify their posts. You can use a 5/32" for an UNCORED bead and it will fit.
Sorry, I don't know the answer to your other question but wanted to clarify that part at least. Sorry you're bummed!
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2008-04-30, 6:32am
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Newfoundland lover!
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I found you really need to double dip the 5/32 mandrel as well. When my bead release was thin some of my beads wouldn't fit. This is on the Biagi bracelet.
FYI the 1/4 mandrel double dipped or thick worked with the rivets that are 5mm in the hole. Haven't gotten to silver coring yet-which is what you are lookin' at.
I found all this out by asking a million questions in other threads.I am math challenged but these above figures work for me.
good luck!
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2008-04-30, 10:37am
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On a good hair day.
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The 5/32" fit if you can ream the bead out just a little with a diamond bit. The the tubing fits smoothly inside.
Patricia
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2008-04-30, 11:02am
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I shared your frustration trying to find the combination that worked for the different types of chain.
Conversion chart:
http://sixmm.com/tech/cvtcht.htm
5/32" is 3.9688mm which heavily dipped and uncored will fit a Pandora, which needs 4.3mm. Personally, I think the bead release cracks too much with this heavy of dipping. Core lining this bead will fit a Troll or AYU chain.
I use a 1/4 tube mandrel and the bead release is just enough to add for the 1/4" silver tubing. 1/4" is 6.3mm, but after allowing for the wall size in the tube, it works for Pandora and Biagi.
I have a chart on my desk at home that I will post if this isn't enough to help you.
BTW, silver is down today--I am itching to buy more tubing.
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2008-04-30, 12:44pm
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Criatura Nocturna
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We sold uncored beads made with 3/16" mandrels and they fit just fine over Pandora, Chamilia, Biaggi, Troll, etc. We recently bought Jim Moore's bead press but had to wait on the silver tubing which was out of stock at the time.
We finally received the tubing from Santa Fe Jeweler's Supply http://www.sfjssantafe.com/SmetalsIt...+Tubing&r=type
#118200 silver tubing - has a 5.03mm OD and a 4.3mm ID 26 GA
This tube fit perfectly over the ends of all the bracelets we have here (Pandora, Chamilia, Biaggi). However, we found that beads made with 3/16" mandrels wouldn't fit over the tubing by just a hair. We use a very thin bead release and had to go back to double dipping in a thicker release.
That solved the problem because we really didn't want to go with 1/4" mandrels. Our customers didn't want bead holes that large, which made the beads larger than their regular bracelet beads when mixed together. We had to make the beads quite a bit thinner to better match the smaller holed beads when using the 1/4" mandrels. Hope this helps!
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Smoke & Mirrors. . .
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2008-04-30, 4:37pm
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Senior Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gubnavnania
I saw the tubing at: http://www.metalliferous.com/pdf/sil...und%20Tube.pdf (stock# STB409B)
Anyone has any idea how big is 0.20" in mm? This tube might fit perfectly for Pandora (if the tube has 4.5mm ID) and you still can use your 3/16" mandrel.
Does Rio Grande have the same size of tubing? |
Hi Gubnavnania,
That will not work for Pandora beads. The ID of that tube will be 3.984 mm.
Here's how it works: Take the OD, and subtract 2 X the wall thickness (WT) to get the ID. Wall thickness (WT) is 0.020 inch. In mm, that is: .02*25.4=0.508 mm. Now take the OD minus two times the wall thickness:
5.0 mm - 1.016 mm = ID = 3.984 mm, less than 4.3 mm, so it won't fit on the bracelet.
To see why that formula works, draw a 1 inch circle. Now, inside that, draw a slightly smaller circle. The big one is the OD, the small one is the ID. Now it should be clear that the diameter of the inner circle is the the OD - 2X the distance between the circles. Or, ID = OD - 2 X WT. 
For more on this stuff, see this thread in the Tips and Techniques Forum:
Od'ing on mm and inches...etc.
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=90295
Take Care,
Dave
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2008-05-01, 12:13am
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I need more boro stuff
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Dave, I realized the ID onthat tube after I read your other post.   
Lucky I haven't order any from them.
You are a life saver 
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2008-05-01, 2:46pm
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If I can get a signficant discount on the 5.03mm/4.3mm 26 ga. tubing, how many would be interested?
At today's silver price $16.16 (price will be at the current day's price), Sante Fe is wanting $46.16 per ounce for this tubing. I am working on a deal with a reliable source that I have used for years that could get this at a significant savings. Notice the lack of final statement, because I will know more in a day if the deal is possible. Right now I am looking to see if there is enough interest for a bulk buy. Delivery might be 3-4 weeks out.
Anyone interested?
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2008-05-01, 3:08pm
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Resident Luny
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So, 5/32 too small, 1/4 works but for some folks it's too big? is 3/16 the happy medium in between?
And where have you all been getting your 1/4 mandrels if that is the route I must go. I am considering sticking with my 5/32s, double dipping and reaming them out a little....
I'm getting dizzy.
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2008-05-01, 3:28pm
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I need more boro stuff
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Tink has some 1/4" hollow mandrels.
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2008-05-01, 6:15pm
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Senior Member
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ginko, I'd be all over that tubing buy!!
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2008-05-02, 9:20am
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It's never too late...
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Ginko I'd be interested in getting some also.
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2008-05-02, 9:43am
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Still working out the deatails. Stay tuned!
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2008-05-03, 3:49pm
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Resident Luny
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me too.......interested.
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2008-05-03, 4:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginko
If I can get a signficant discount on the 5.03mm/4.3mm 26 ga. tubing, how many would be interested?
At today's silver price $16.16 (price will be at the current day's price), Sante Fe is wanting $46.16 per ounce for this tubing. I am working on a deal with a reliable source that I have used for years that could get this at a significant savings. Notice the lack of final statement, because I will know more in a day if the deal is possible. Right now I am looking to see if there is enough interest for a bulk buy. Delivery might be 3-4 weeks out.
Anyone interested?
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Santa Fe charges $9.00/oz "fabrication fee" plus $5.00 handling on small orders. (I think "small" is less than 3 oz.) Rio Grande charged me almost the exact same price for the silver itself as Santa Fe, (both go by spot price) but no handling fee, or fabrication fee.
The 1/4 inch tubing from Rio is item # 100-907/14, at .770 oz per foot, 1/4 in. OD, wall thickness 0.016, ID 0.218 in. Silver was $26 and change that day and a one foot rod came to $20.66, no extra fees.
I should have 1/4 inch solid stainless steel mandrels for sale at www.artintheround.com shortly.
Dave
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2008-05-04, 11:15pm
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Spectrum rulz
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Join Date: Nov 12, 2005
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bhb
How many beads would that core Dave. I saw an ebay listing for the chinese type that say theirs were sterling silver cored $7 for 8 beads. How can that be, I think someone here is Aus worked out it was costing them $5 per bead to core. My problem is I cant make the beads small enough I have been going with the I give up plan - but all this discussion keeps drawing me back in.
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2008-05-05, 3:32pm
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Senior Member
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Dave, the 1/4" tubing is fairly easy to come by. My customers want something closer to the Pandora/Biagi size to fit with other "name brand" beads they purchased. The tubing order I am working on will be sized specifically for us to make Pandora/Biagi fits.
I actually went out and bought a Pandora chain today to make sure I am getting the measurements correct. Smart marketing on their part. They are just .5mm larger than industry standard large hole beads. Ya think they don't want anyone else making beads for their bracelets?
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2008-05-05, 3:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrywashere
How many beads would that core Dave. I saw an ebay listing for the chinese type that say theirs were sterling silver cored $7 for 8 beads. How can that be, I think someone here is Aus worked out it was costing them $5 per bead to core. My problem is I cant make the beads small enough I have been going with the I give up plan - but all this discussion keeps drawing me back in.
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eep! There is no way I can compete with $7 for 8 beads. The silver material alone is more than that.
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2008-05-05, 9:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrywashere
How many beads would that core Dave. I saw an ebay listing for the chinese type that say theirs were sterling silver cored $7 for 8 beads. How can that be, I think someone here is Aus worked out it was costing them $5 per bead to core. My problem is I cant make the beads small enough I have been going with the I give up plan - but all this discussion keeps drawing me back in.
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Hi!
Nice to hear from you!
Well, for say, a 9 mm wide bead, plus 1.5 mm for the flare each side, plus say 2 mm kerf (waste from the cutting), that's about 13 mm, almost exactly a 1/2 inch, so maybe 22 to 24 beads/foot. You'll have some bloopers, so about $1.00 per bead I'd say, plus the shipping charge.
But, two questions:
(1) Did you check the size of the bead holes? Maybe they're only 3/32 or so..
(2) Do you know any pregnant women who would be willing to work for you for $5.00 per 10-12 hour day? If so, you can compete with China easily! Actually that's the average pay for a factory worker (the good jobs) over there last time I checked. Making beads is probably a cottage business, so I imagine the pay is far less.
Bummer, huh?
Now you guys understand what I'm up against making tools. Tools are what they are all about. I'm certainly not pregnant, but I have indeed worked at times for $5.00 per day and less (like zero, for weeks) during development, etc. Not fun, is it? The only thing you can do is make it better, and worth the dough. In the end, the dust will settle and we'll have a world economy that works, I hope. But right now we're seeing the burden of having to adapt our lifestyles to something closer to the average. They are being lifted up, and have a long way to go. We are being brought down, and I fear, also have a long way to go.
On that sorry note, I still wish us all a brighter day ahead. Keep the faith, and be happy. Happiness is a choice, not a circumstance. 
Take Care,
Dave
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2008-05-05, 10:49pm
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Spectrum rulz
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Join Date: Nov 12, 2005
Location: Ipswich, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 151
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Hi Dave, Well yes I know that some poor pregnant woman or 96 year old grandmother or 4 year old child are probably making the beads. My question is where are they buying their silver from if they can afford to sell 8 supposedly sterling silver cored beads for $7.00. I know they are only paying half a grain of rice per bead but surely they still need to make a profit. I know everything here lampwork related is heaps dearer than in the USA but I suppose we buy our sterling silver tube that that isnt also made by a 96 year old grandfather, women in labour or 5 year old child. Maybe I'll put the silvercoring on the backburner again and give thanks for the country I live in and appreciate the person who is paid real wages to produce our tube. I was interested to know that it is costing you $1.00 per bead to core when it is costing $5.00 per bead to core in Aus (unless someone knows secrets where it is cheaper).
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